Ortiz vs. Maidana

You can't deny, his offense was surprisingly effective and polished for a prospect.

 

His offence isn't the problem. His defence and chin is the problem.

 

The reason for my "Bizzaro World" reference. :nono:

 

...shame Ortiz lost....i like the guy, and throughout the fight i was thinking how great it would be to see him against Khan, who was ringside. Still Khan-Maidana wouldn't be bad.....Khan's got to get past Kotelink first though

 

....just listened to the interview. That is one of the best post fight interviews i have seen....certainly one of the most honest.

He just basically admitted he didn't have the balls to go on....and whilst that is not fitting with some of our favourite fighters of all time....it is refreshing how open he was about it. Most guys who quit, come up with some shitty excuse....or only half quit - enough for the referee to know they dont wanna go on....but then they'll claim that they didn't quit. Others just don't talk to the media, cos deep down they are ashamed.

I'm not saying that i was pleased to see him quit, but i just like the way he justified it....no bullshit. He's a smart kid, and he wants himself to stay that way.

 

He was about to get hit with the same kind of right hand that nearly decapitated him at the end of the fifth anyway, I think he made the smart move. Yeah, that doesn't sound great but he went through hell before admitting defeat. Guys like Corrales would have continued even in that state but not everybody have that kind of determination. I don't know what's next for him but he spared himself a brutal KO and that might give him a better chance to rebuilt himself, unless Maidana ripped his heart out, which is very possible. You want your prospects to face adversity early in their career, but that might have been too much. It was a very good and dramatic fight, I love upsets, but it wasn't the best match making I've seen for a prospect of Ortiz's caliber. It seems to happen often with G prospects.

 

I'm not sure I want to jump to the conclusion that Ortiz is nothing but hype. As you say, he has some pretty good offensive abilities. Maidana's tough as nail and despite looking wild he adjusted and found ways to avoid Ortiz power and to land his right hand very effectively. A lot of credit has to go to Maidana and to mIKE too that said a few years ago to keep an eye on that argentinian.

 

I agree.

Victor totally pulled a Freitas, but you can't help but like him still.

And the fact is, quitting is sort of inexcusable in boxing, but fighters still ALWAYS make some excuse as to why they quit, or they just leave etc.

But Ortiz obviously knew there was no excuse, so didn't make one, basically just said he was hurt and didn't want to get brutally KO'd ::

I hope this loss doesn't fuck him up, and he grows as a fighter, instead of implode.

 

Defense & HEART R the Problems...Ortiz Took Quite a Few FLUSH Right Hands Well & Maidana Can Obviously BANG...Ortiz WOULDN'T Have Gotten Up from that Right Hand in Round 1 if he had a BAD Chin...



REED:hammert:

 

agREED::...Matching your HOT Prospect w/a Guy that's KO'ed All but 1 Opponent in OVER 20 Bouts ISN'T Smart...



REED:hammert:

 

REED STILL Likes the Kid Too, but it's HARD To Imagine how he Can Overcome This, Although Vitali Klit Overcame Similar Circumstances...



REED:hammert:

 

Well, maybe unless you fight for Golden Boy.

He'll probably be matched with some feather-fists for a while, so we might not find out what he does next time he's faced with a simlar circumstance for some time.

But I'm sure future opponents will remember what he said and remind him and others of it before future fights.

We'll see how he responds to it.

One of the interesting things is I think Caiz tried to give him an alibi after Ortiz tried to quit.

Ortiz is an example of why promoters/managers coach their fighters int he ring prior to these interviews...but I tend to think Ortiz simply got asked a question in a way he probably wasn't ready for.

 

Yeah, except Vitali didn't get his ass kicked in front of everybody on top of the quitting. ::

 

Right...

Vitali Quit in a Fight that he'd WON just about Every Round In...Ortiz had the "Fight" BEATEN OUT of him...It'll B MUCH Harder for Ortiz to Rebound from this...



REED:mj:

 

Im not ready to throw him under the bus for having no heart yet. Vazquez quit against Marquez then came back and beat him twice. I might be among the minority here but i like Ortiz more now then i did before yesterdays fight.

 

They had to step up him comp. HBO wasn't going to let him fight bums in main events on their network. Maidana is tough but hes not that good. I am sure G felt it was a safe match up. Especially with the way Shane and Oscar seemed to be verbally trashing the kid after the fight.

 

Vazquez had been in wars at the championship level prior to that fight.

 

True.

Oh I did forget to mention though, obviously Ortiz bottled it, so his heart is his problem, but honestly his chin isn't bad.

Maidana can punch, and Ortiz was getting hit with huge flush right hands at the end and wasn't close to getting KO'd. Shit he went down in 6th from a bodyshot, but it wasn't even the punch, he simply wanted out of the fight so went down.

Also, it is true isn't it, G's matchmaking is pretty suspect? I mean, just odd really. Kind of the opposite of Frank Warren.

It's good to bring a fighter along quickly, but matchmaking like this is veering more towards plain stupidity.

His first real test, headlining a card, was against a young, hungry fighter with a big punch and big balls? ::

Not the wisest choice at this stage for Victor.

 

Regarding the match-making, I think part of the problem is Ortiz hadn't really been in a lot of tough fights...especially recently.

He rarely went late in fights, and guys Arnaoutis and Resto usually went pretty easily...and like Ortiz said in the post-fight, perhaps early on he thought Maidana would as well...and it was shortly after the first knockdown that he got dropped (similarly, in fact, to the way he was dropped by Esalas right after he had knocked him down).

As a rule, I think it's not always a wise mix to put a rising fighter up against his toughest opponent and his hardest-hitting opponent on the same night...and I think that's what happened to Ortiz last night.

It happened to Vicente Escobedo a few years ago against Daniel Jimenez.

Escobedo only had to go eight rounds that night, though, so when he got dropped late he could at least see the finish line.

Ortiz was staring up at six more if he lasted the round.

 

Israel took alot of shit on here for quitting in the first Marquez fight.

 

And that undoubtedly hurt his feelings.

 

In context though, ortiz's test should have been arnoutis - shame he's shot - and before that he'd gotten through maussa, resto et al...it was a brave but reasonable match-up...maidana coming off a loss to a guy who many, not me, expect to lose to amir khan in a few weeks. Having said that, if I looked at it through my frank warren goggles, I would have put him in with one of following: demetrius hopkins, herman ngoudjo, or maybe even zab judah or nate campbell

 

Does that mean you're seeing Barrera next for Ortiz?

 

Lets see what marquez has left after the mayweather fight :crafty:

 

I wonder if they'd put Juan Diaz in with Ortiz.

 

Yeah you're right.

Certainly on paper Arnoutis was his biggest test, and Victor just destroyed him like he was nothing.

So logically, one would think he'd end up destroying this guy too, especially given that he couldn't beat kotelnik.

Like Mitchell said though, it's probably not a great idea to have the toughest test also be the biggest puncher you've faced.

Victor was facing a guy who was not only just as hungry as him, if not hungrier than him (unlike resto and arnoutis) but a guy who was tough, prepared to take punishment, AND had a big punch.

So first he had to deal with someone wanting to win at least as much as him, then he had to deal with a guy who was prepared to take Victor's onslaught and keep fighting, and then finally he had to deal with getting cracked harder than ever before.

And you just got the impression, it suddenly became a bit much for him, and he bottled it.

I also got the feeling that Victor perhaps became overconfident because of fights like arnoutis. He thought, hey the other guys couldn't take my offense, I'm bound to KO this guy too. Well he even said as much in the interview really. So he fought stupid to top everything else off.

Still, great win for Maidana, he is a solid fighter, and has more skill/brain than his sloppy style would suggest.

 

Mex, you nailed it. I like the fact he owned up to it.

 

Guys, wouldn't we be more pissed off if Ortiz was matched to soft rather than too rough?

 

I don't know that anyone's pissed about the fight.

I thought going in that it was one of the best match-ups HBO's had all year...and was in fact like an old BAD card (at least it would have been with John-Juarez II accompanying it).

 

I'm not pissed at all, I was just commenting from a fighter's management perspective. Ortiz had pretty big earnings potential.