Ortiz vs. Maidana

Ortiz can say all he wants about fighting stupid, or fighting the wrong fight, but until he procures a rematch with Maddiana and managed to win it, he cannot be considered the better fighter. That's simply ludicrous. If he were the better fighter, he would've won the bout.

Now, like I said, if he gets the rematch, and manages to change the entire complexion of the fight and beats Maddeina in what seems to be an entirely different fight from the first one, then the case could be made that he's better, and that he simply let his emotions get the best of him.

But if you ask me, he had the opportunity following round five to change his strategy and fight, "smart" as he claimed not to have done. But he didn't. Instead, he pulled a Freitas. That says to me he's not the better fighter and no amount of "smart" fighting he can or cannot do will change the outcome of a fight between these two.

I wish I could've heard what Mosley and ODH were saying to Ortiz following the fight. They were probably telling him he fought a stupid fight and should not have allowed it to be a shoot-out. Well, if they really believe that's why he lost, then they should make the rematch.

My opinion is that Maddeina's aggression and willingness to continually get off the canvas, and not be hurt, is what won the fight. Not any holes in Ortiz's strategy.

 

Ortiz was Nailed FLUSH on the Chin 1 or 2 MORE Times in the Fight, Doub...His Defense was VERY Leaky, Against a TRUE Puncher & it Ultimately COST him...But Even @ the End, Ortiz had his WITS about him, WASN'T Groggy or on Shaky Legs or Anything...Maidana's Power Wilted Ortiz EMOTIONALLY More than Physically, he PANICKED & we All Saw which PATH He Selected, when Given the Option of FIGHT or FLIGHT...

Amir Khan is CHINNY, Not Ortiz...Ortiz ABSORBED alot More Shots from NO LESS of a Puncher than the Guy that WRECKED Khan...& he NEVER Looked as BADLY Hurt as Khan was, in LESS than 1 Round....



REED:mj:

 

Ortiz is a quitter and will always be a quitter. His post fight words said all I need to know about the guy. His heart is not in it. When the going gets tough, he WILL quit.

 

Oscar was probably telling him to claim he ate bad oysters.

 

Nah, he was Telling Ortiz that those "Incriminating Photos" were in a SECURE Spot...


REED:hammert:

 

And Shane was telling him where he could buy a shirt like his.

 

There's Certainly NO Reason to Think Otherwise...Considering Ortiz's HISTORY, it was SURPRISING that he Mentally TAPPED OUT like that...


REED:hammert:

 

Well clearly he has a better chin than Khan. I won't dispute that.

I think Maidana's shots wilted Ortiz pretty badly physically. Did you see the shiner on his left eye? Not to mention the cut on his left eye? Plus the final knock-down that was from a body-shot?

But yeah. I agree. Given that Ortiz was physically in a position to go on fighting, despite the punishment he'd absorbed, it was definitely the emotional assault that halted his efforts.

But his bit about not having fought smart is bull-shit. He could've started fighting smart the second he got knocked down and realized he was in there tough. I guess chalk it up to inexperience. But still. It's going to be a long road back from him given the way he flat out quit like a bitch.

 

I agree, He always reminded me of a young Fernando Vargas. Too bad he doesn't have the heart.

 

Meh that was only because he was from Oxnard and bore a passing resemblance, I see no other similarities

 

Nah he probably said: No worries I quit against a flyweight.

 

It's MORE than a Passing Resemblance in REED's Opinion...Offensively, Ortiz Looks & MOVES like a Young Vargas...His FOOTWORK, the TRAJECTORY of his Punches, his UPPER BODY Movement, etc...

& that Makes Sense Since both of them Train(ed) w/the Garcia Family...



REED:hammert:

 

I think more credit should be given to Madeira. Yeah Ortiz quit. But it's clear he was going to lose the fight had he not. At least in my opinion. And how many times did Madeira get off the canvas? Was it three? Four? He could just as easily have quit himself if it weren't for his obvious determination to win no matter what. In fact, you could make the claim that moreso than anything it was Madeira's willingness to keep getting up and fighting back that discouraged Ortiz the most and made him quit. Not to suggest he didn't do some serious damage to Ortiz, but at the same time, Ortiz hadn't been used to guys getting up and fighting back. Now we see how he reacts when they do.

 

True...Ortiz was Cut along the Right Eyebrow & had MAJOR Swelling Under his Left ...& it All Seemed to Happen Rather Suddenly...REED Thinks Ortiz was LOOKING for a Place to Lay on the Final Knockdown...

Ortiz has the TALENT to Rebound from this, but We'll See...



REED:hammert:

 

Agreed! I also think he has the talent. I still think the better man lost Saturday Night. It was clear that that Ortiz was a better fighter.

 

See, REED Actually Thought it was ANYBODY's Fight Up Until Ortiz Quit...CLEARLY, Ortiz was in TROUBLE, but REED Figured he'd CLINCH, Recover & Rebound...Even when he Went Down, REED Figured Ortiz was just Getting a BREATHER More than Being Genuinely HURT...

That's why it's Sooooooooo Disappointing that he QUIT...

Ortiz was Hurt WORSE in the 1st Round, but he Bounced Back from It & was Actually Whipping Maidana's Ass for a Few Rounds...



REED:hammert:

 

It's ridiculous to say the better man lost on Saturday. Ortiz said himself that Madeira, or whatever his name is, was the better man. How can he have lost and be called the better man? That's ludicrous. The only explanation for that is that you've seen Ortiz fight before and grow a liking to him, whereas you couldn't care less about Madeira. Otherwise, it's ridiculous to suggest that a guy who quit in the middle of a fight was the better man compared to his opponent who did not quit despite getting knocked down three times and fighting in a foreign country. Ridiculous.

Ortic was not the better man.

 

Exatly how did you come to that conclusion?

They both were knockdown an equal amount of times, and when push came to shove the more "talented guy" looked for away out. The better man did not lose on saturday.

 

It was 3 Knockdowns to 2, Wasn't It???....


REED:dunno:

 

Just saw the fight. A FOTY candidate for sure. :bears:

Maidana simply broke Ortiz will. His defence was appalling throughout, and Maidana couldn't miss with his right hand. That was always going to spell trouble against a guy who could genuinely crack.

It's tough to criticise Ortiz decision to quit, though IMHO. It's easy for most of us to sit here and give him shit, but who here has even been in the position he found himself at the start of that 6th round? He clearly didn't recover from two murderous, flush right hands at the end of the fifth. He also had a massively closing eye and blood pouring from the other eye. Maidana was on top of him and was hitting him absolutely at will. Ortiz had two realistic choices: either admit defeat, call it quits and walk out of the ring on his own two feet or get back up and get himself KTFO in short order and quite possibly be carried out of the ring instead. Only the truly great champions would ever choose the latter- whilst Ortiz showed he will never be that by choosing the former, at least he has his health and his senses and live to fight another day.

A great fight though, and major kudos to Maidana and to mikE, who called it before it happened when others (who shall remain nameless) had dismissed Maidana as a lamb to the slaughter...

MTF

 

Ortiz was technically better in my opinion. This fight came down to who wanted it more.

 

That means absolutely nothing when the other guy makes you quit after having smashed your head in...

MTF

 

Wasn't it 3 knockdowns a piece? regardless I don't think the better man lost.

 

My point exactly. Better skills don't mean shit when the other guy breaks you down and makes you quit.

 

For those who haven't seen it, with much thanks to the original poster who gave me the link on Tam's site...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XPLZTPRO

MTF artie:

 

REED was VERY Drunk Saturday Night, but Seems to Recall Ortiz Tasting the Canvas Only Twice...Thrice for Maidana...


REED:hammert:

 

So now we're living in a world where the better man can lose by knock-out? A TKO no less whereby the loser quit on his feet? Oh okay. That changes the whole game. You mean I can say things like, RJJ was the better man when he got KTFO by Glen Johnson? Or I can make the claim that Castillo was the better man when he was KO'd by Corrales? Or even Hatton? Alright !!! This is great. It turns out the outcome of the fight doesn't determine who the better man is. Imagine that. Well I'm going to have to go ahead and say definitively that ODH was the better man the night he fought PBF because PBF fought like a pussy.

 

You're right, but If it wasn't for the ropes, I'm pretty sure Ortiz would have went down at the end of the fifth, that was a hell of a right hand, and IMO, that's the punch that won the fight for Maidana.

 

You didn't need Hex's post to say that, you've been saying that since the day after the fight.

 

Let's NOT Pretend that Ortiz WASN'T Having Success in the Fight...Like REED Said, for a LARGE Portion of the Fight, Ortiz was WHIPPING Maidana's Ass...Aside from the 5th & 6th, U Could Argue that Ortiz WON EVERY Round...Maidana was Never More than 1 or 2 Well Placed Punches from Reversing the Tide, but Ortiz Seemed to B WINNING it for the Most Part...

Maidana was the Better Man THAT NIGHT, but Ortiz was Getting the BETTER of the Action Until the Very End...It's Possible to B BETTER than a Particular Fighter while LOSING to him, Simulataneously...

Was Iran Barkley BETTER than Tommy Hearns???...Hell No, but he Beat him Twice, 1nce by VIOLENT KO...


REED:hammert: