How would Manny Pacquiao have fared in 1982?

Not a hugger NOR a hater thread.

Lightweight titlists were Bazooka Limon and Sammy Serrano.

Jr. Welter champs were Pryor and Saoul Mamby.

And of course the welterweight champ was Leonard.

Not nearly as easy a course as today.....

Does Manny win a title at any of these weights? And if so, against who.

 

I think he slaughters serrano and limon.
Pryor? Gotta pick Pryor, but sticking that chin up so much might cost him.
Mamby...haven't seen enough to know.
Leonard is the pick over Pacq. Both super talented, but Leonard is bigger and figured out how to completely neutralize Duran. Pre-Duran, Leonard might have gotten suckered into the same type of fight, though.

 

Youre right,...Pryor did stick his chin out there. But even when knocked down, he was never hurt and bounced up throwing tons of shots as usual.

Mixed bottle or not,...the right hand that Arguello landed in the 13th would have practically KILLED anyone else.
Manny ain't stopping Pryor.....and gets overwhelmed inside of 10.

Leonard would have stopped Manny AHEAD on points at the time of the stoppage.

 

Leonard woulda raped Manny.

 

SRL would seriously seriously Rape him

he'd put blood in his butt.. blood in his butt

 

::

 

Manny vs Leonard is a mismatch.

Put it this way...

Manny wouldn't have dreamed of fighting at 147 in 1982...not with Leonard, hearns and Duran around that weight class.

In fact, why talk about manny at 140 when the REAL question would have been if he could have handled Arguello at 135 in 1982.

It's safe to say Manny beats the hell out of Ray Mancini at 135.

 

Exactly. Or the late Sanchez for that matter. I'd certainly pick Sanchez over him at 126lb.

 

What if he fought a weight-drained SRL would had been competing regularly at 154 for six years? And had been knocked out by say, Hagler, had won a controversial decision over Curry, and was robbed against Starling before moving to 154 and taking on contenders there for five years? And lost to Pryor at 154 by decision.

What then?

 

it's a fair point::

 

Lightweight champs were Arguello and Mancini. Limon and Serrano were Junior Lightweights.

I don't know that Manny beats Arguello or Pryor. But I do know it's a much more challenging path than taking on Diaz and Hatton at 135 & 140.

Manny would have his hands full and then some with both Sanchez or Pedroza at 126. I don't know that he wins either of those fights.

At 130...he would beat Limon or Serrano.

At 135. I don't know that he beats Arguello. Same goes for Pryor at 140.

At 147 Leonard only made 1 title defense in 1982 before having eye surgery and then retiring. Hearns, Duran & Benitez were all competing at 154 in 1982. Even with the big names gone from 147, I wouldn't pick Manny over any of the next wave of top Welters...Curry, McCrory & Starling. And if he can't win the lower weight big fights, then 147 is a moot point anyway.

 

Why don't you just say the 40 year old Leonard who got embarassed and stopped by Camacho?

The thread was about 1982.

This is really a thread about Oscar isn't it?

 

Well I think the thread was attempting to assess Manny's chances of doing what he's done in 2009 in 1982. My point is he wouldn't even try. SRL was never a full-time fighter. And he sure's hell would not have stripped weight the way ODH did in order to make the fight with Manny if he had been. We don't even know if SRL still would've been a top fighter. He certainly would not have had the shiny record he had going into the Hagler fight. Not if he hadn't retired when he did and instead moved up to 154 and ultimately 160.

I'm just saying to the extent the thread is trying to compare Manny's chances then versus his chances now, there's many differences circumstancially that would probably have made Manny's chances of winning a welter-weight title prohibitive.

The other point is that in 1982 SRL was five times the fighter that ODH was in 2009 fighting at 147 for the first time in seven years. My point was to be fair, SRL would've had to have been a full-time fighter with more than a couple significant fights under his belt to be fighting anywhere close to the circumstances under which ODH was battered by Pacquiao.

We may as well say, what if Pacquiao moved up to 147 and faced Paul Williams? Or even Mosley? Someone who has had some success as of late. But he didn't. He fought a completely weight drained ODH who couldn't even beat PBF at 154 because like Freddie said, he couldn't pull the trigger, and his stamina was shit.

And Hatton, save for his win over Tszyu, a very old Tszyu in a fight that was close by the way, hadn't done shit before Pacquiao knocked his head off. I mean really. What had Hatton accomplished before getting knocked out by Pacquiao? He managed to get KO'd by feather-fisted PBF, stunk the joint out against perhaps the easiest contender there ever was to look good against, Tackie, was nearly KO'd by Collazo, looked like shit against Urango, showed no skill whatsoever in his victory over Malignaggi, and to repeat myself, has really just one thing to hang his hat on and that's an ugly, skill-less, and tedious victory over Tszyu.

I guess when I think about it Pacquiao's been impressive but selective nontheless, and we shouldn't forget that he's not conquered by any stretch of the imagination either 147 or 140. At least not in my opinion.

 

I stopped reading after this. Leonard fought Finch a few months after the Hearns fight. The thread is about the 1982 version of Leonard...prior to the detached retina he was a full-time fighter. What are you talking about?

'77 - 6 fights
'78 - 10 fights
'79 - 9 fights (including the Benitez fight)
'80 - 2 fights (Both fights with Duran)
'81 - 3 fights (Kayule and Hearns)
'82 - 1 fight (suffered detached retina and retired the first time)


At 23 years old Leonard was 30-1, about to fight Hearns, had two scraps with Duran and had beaten Benitez.

Care to revise your statement...I can't move forward until that line is retracted.

 

I was all ready to set Double straight for the Leonard never a full time fighter foolishness...but you have already taken care of that. Thanks for saving me the keystrokes.

Unfortunately for us who read his posts, Leonard has become the newest member of Double's hate list. Which means he will be doing his best to downplay Leonard and his accomplishments.

 

Wow I really can't let that slide - Manny is 'selective' now? Wildly, wildly unfair, dude.::

A) The Oscar fight was taken purely because it was the biggest purse and potentially the biggest boon to his career (as it's proven to be) imaginable. That was (rightfully) taken as a joke of a fight which Oscar had contrived to give himself an exciting, easy KO win, it wasn't Manny who 'selected' Oscar, in fact he was barely given a chance of winning. The Williams and Mosley fights (or any other welterweight fight) weren't on the radar; in fact they were unmakable.

B) The Hatton fight was by far the biggest fight out there for him after that, and overlooking the aberrant weight hopping of the Oscar fight, one he effectively moved UP from 135lb for having barely made a pitstop there, fighting the undisputed Ring mag 140lb champ, who had never lost a fight at that weight. It was regarded (rightfully, based on form and basic logic) as a pick 'em fight.

C) Now he's fighting Cotto, as good an opponent as there is at 147lb, a full two weights at least above where he should ideally be fighting. Is Mosley a better opponent at this point? If you asked 100 boxing fans they'd probably be split down the middle, but this is certainly a more marketable fight & logical fight. Williams is at Middleweight, Margirito is suspended and Floyd is dicking around.

He literally couldn't have gotten better/tougher/more challenging opponents in the ring if he'd tried. He'd definitely be crazy enough to fight Leonard if the opportunity arose, although 30 years ago it probably wouldn't have because getting through the gauntlet of Gomez, Pedroza, Sanchez, Arguello & Pryor to make the fight marketable ain't happening.

 

In many ways, PBF's career parallell's SRL's. PBF fought and beat the best there was at 130 and 135, just as SRL did at 147. Then, SRL retired, and for all intents and purposes, so did PBF. The PBF found an old and slow legend in a weight class well above where he'd fought at his best and beat him, fooling the public into thinking he was invincible.

SRL gets more credit for the Hagler fight since he actually showed heart, and Hagler's a better fighter than ODH, especially at the respective times when they fought, and SRL had been completely retired, whereas PBF had simply retired from fighting the best guys in his division.

Nontheless, PBF, not unlike SRL in his later years, hop-scotched weight classes in order to duck and dodge high risk/ low reward contenders, or opponents they didn't think they could beat.

 

Hmm...the comparison is slightly strained but I see what you're saying. Difference essentially is that Leonard's wins were vastly better at every stage of his career.

 

Youd really have to hate Manny to put him in the ring with SRL. I love Manny but this is a mismatch.

 

Good post.

 

As usual, you are reaching. And of course whenever you mention Leonard's retirement you leave out the part where it was caused by a serious eye injury. Leonard never gave any indication of retiring prior to his detached retina. So let's get it straight...Leonard didn't just retire...he had an injury that usually spelled the end of a career for boxers at that point in time. And at the time of the injury...Leonard was fighting, and beating the best fighters at his weight.

You try to make it sound like Leonard was milking the injury to avoid some up and comers at Welter (which is all Curry, Starling and McCrory were at that time...even though all would go on to win titles) when he spent the past few years taking on the likes of Duran, Benitez, Hearns and Jr. Middle champ Kalule and was planning to make a move up to for possible Benitez & Hearns rematches and eventually a Hagler fight. That is just not accurate. And to be honest...I think they were all lucky that Leonard retired when he did, because I don't think any of them was a serious threat in 1982. I think they all benefitted from Leonard not being Welterweight champ as each progressed to title challengers.

But then...what do you know? You claim Leonard was just a "runner and grappler". And now he was a "ducker and dodger". How much longer before you decide he was "hippety-hoppity"?

 

Exactly...three of those guys he probably loses to...I'd take Arguello over him at 135 making Pryor and Leonard moot.

Him against Sal Sanchez...not so sure but you have to make Sanchez the favorite.

 

Agreed.

And also agreed Manny TKO's Mancini... but Mancini would not just get blown out like Hatton did. I think Boom Boom goes rounds, and gives Manny some difficult moments, but in the end is beat up and TKO'd late.

Pryor & Arguello would have both stopped Manny late.

 

Nothing but subtle anti-Pac bias. ::

 

Looks a little bit like it.

Pac destroys Mancini. He outboxes, outspeeds Arguello (Stylewise is a bad matchup for Alexis) but probably loses in a punishing long fight for both to the bigger, stronger and rougher Pryor who's nasty style would match pretty well against Manny.

 

Agreed, Arguello for all his greatness was rather slow, i'm not sure he could handle Manny's speed. Also, Manny has excellent reflexes and pretty good defense when he's focusing on it, i think he wouldn't get hit too many times by Arguello's accurate and heavy but relatively slow punches.

 

I didn't want to be the only one to say it, but I agree with you - I think Manny has the perfect style to beat Arguello, just as Marcel's and Pryor's did, Manny's angles and chaotic aggression would've taken Arguello out of his game. In the very least, Pacquiao would've decisioned Arguello but I wouldn't rule out a KO victory for him either.

 

Because Arguello is such a good techinican Manny's speed wouldn't be as much of an issue because Alexis would be able to time him.

Look at the issues Manny had with Marquez.

Arguello might be slower, but was a better puncher at 135. Once he caught Manny, manny would stay hurt. Not to mention he'd had a significant height and reach advantage.

 

If there's one fighter who is tough to time, it's Pacquiao. Especially when you're as slow as Arguello. I'm not saying Arguello couldn't do it, but it's not a foregone conclusion. He could go the whole fight without landing that long right hand if Pacquiao set his mind to avoiding it. That's not to say he'd win the fight if he fought as defensively as that, but he might.

I can envision Pacquiao doing what Pryor did - using Arguello's height against him by swarming him with in and out combinations. And in this, Pacquiao is superior to Pryor because he's careful never to go straight back whereas the times Pryor was caught with that long right hand he was moving straight back from having swarmed Arguello. I don't see Manny making that mistake.