I know he doesn't have the physical gifts to be world class and he never will do, but IMHO, there's maybe no better fighter to watch on his game in all of boxing. And I think the reason he's so good to watch is precisely because he doesn't have hand speed, reflex', power, strength, fleet feet or anything else to fall back on other than pure boxing fundamentals and imagination which make him one of the few present present day fighters who even nod to the subtle skills that were common 30 years ago. He's a very poor man's Nicolino Loche in my book and boxing would be better if there were more of him. Give me one Alfonso Gomez over all the super gifted 'athlete' fighters in the world! :bears:
Alfonso Gomez? Are we talking about the same bum Alfonso Gomez who Cotto toyed with? If so, you should be banned for using his name is the same THREAD as Nicolino Locche!
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Awesome highlights although it was done as a Cotto masturbation fest, it shows that Cotto is indeed an elite fighter. Come on Hut Hut, I'm sure there is a video out there that supports your argument, let's see it.
Alfonso Gomez SUCKS... He's an HONEST, HARDWORKING Fighter that's WORTHY of Genuine RESPECT, but he SUCKS Nonetheless... REED:hammert:
::::You took the type out of fingers on this one. I want to like him and cheer for him, but I cannot.
While I don't really like Gomez, I agree with HutHut globally on his view. It's easy to roots for guy's like Jones or PBF when they are in their prime as what they do is eyecatching, but a guy who, to win, has to break the will of his opponent even if he's outclassed in talent, power and skills, deserves special kind of respect. That's why I'll alway's root for a John Ruiz over a infinitively more gifted Wlad who crumbles when the going gets too tough.
I can SORT of see where Hut is coming from in rooting for a guy with a talent deficit, but seriously, gomez is simply not very good. He is not even particularly skilled or crafty to compensate for his lack of natural talent.
Alfonso is a hard worker and one hell of a person. When I last seen him in Wild Card Gym; he had made massive improvements. I think you all will be surpised in his next fight. He fought his way from Mexico. Beat one of the best fighters on the Contender in PMJ, and faced one of the best fighters of the last decade only to be carried out on his shield like a warrior. Not a bum in my book!:bears:
Pretty much the response I expected to this thread! I posted it right before leaving for work, it's funny coming back the next day to it, feels like I threw a wee hand grenade into the room before leaving. Or did a really smelly fart and fucked off. :: I just really like the guys style, I think he fights with allot of imagination and technical flair. As i said, he's NOT world class - he has pretty much NO physical aptitude for boxing other than a decent chin, he probably got picked last at sports at school, he's slow and fairly weak, but as I said that's part of what makes him so great to watch on his game, in my book, that he has to overcome that with sheer boxing 101. The Locche comparison was of course OTT, but I did preface it with 'very, very poor man's', so I stand by it. Alfonso Gomez:bears::bears:
:bears: Yup, so was the Tackie fight. He's a great fighter trapped in a bums body, IMO. He looked appallingly bad against Cotto, but I just think true world class is a bridge too far for him.
John Ruiz doesn't qualify. The thread is referring to guys like Gomez: Ward, Feliciano, Estrada - guys who actually put themselves in harm's way and try to win. Not pussies like Ruiz who hold anytime there's a chance they might get hit. Or they need a rest. Fuck Ruiz forever. The guy was a travesty.
Disagreed, I think he has allot of skills. Just not the physical gifts to implement them at the highest level. At a certain point, if your speed, reflex', strength and power are so inferior to your opponent that you can't get shit done then skills are FOR SHIT. For instance, even the most skillful fighter in the world can't compete once he hits a certain age but it's not because he loses his skills it's because he loses the ability to implement them at the highest level. Put Ray Leonard in with a guy who is slow and weak enough and he'll pull off all the moves he did when he was 25, and it'll be better to watch than allot of current champs - as is watching Gomez fight when he isn't over matched. I bet Gomez will make a very good coach for instance.:bears:
You gotta begrudgingly admire Ruiz as a character, to achieve what he has with zero talent. But as a fighter he's the fucking anti-christ, I could never bring myself to root for him.
While I think "great" might be a reach...that's a good way of putting it. I think maybe "a World Class fighter trapped in a bum's body" might be more accurate. But then again...I've always been a pretty hard marker when it comes to calling fighters "great".
I think Gomez's technique is awful. If the argument is that he has good skills and craft, but just isn't athletic enough to be World Class, I have to disagree. I think in addition to his lack of athleticism, he also lacks technique and craft. The only reason he beat Gatti was due to his size advantage and the fact that Gatti was shot. And keep in mind that even when Gatti wasn't shot he never had an ounce of success above 140. Gatti was a dream fight for Gomez. A "name" he could actually beat.
I certainly agree with your logic here, but quite simply I've never really noticed Gomez being particularly skillful. He is just very average, nothing he does seems particularly skillful, crafty, or clever.
Oh yeah definitely, great, again, was an exaggeration. Your description is certainly more accurate. Fair enough, I suppose I just really like his style. Different people see different things for different reasons, I just find him quite crafty & stylish in there in a 101 type way. Not for the first time, I'll agree to disagree with you there, mate. If you were gonna set up a fighter as a model to teach a kid solid boxing 101 Gomez would be right up there among current guys. If the kid was gifted enough he might be able to transcend some of the stuff he does in time but as a basic model of what solid boxing fundamentals looks like Gomez would be a very nice place to start. Far better than say Shane Mosley, Joe Calzaghe or Jermain Taylor who are undoubtedly much, much better fighters. Gomez to me is basically what JMM would look like if he had been born without his crispness of punching, laser like accuracy, perfect balance, world class hand speed and power. He has a comparable grasp of boxing technique to my eyes.
WOW!!!... REED Gets what U're TRYING to Say, but U're Still OVERSELLING Gomez QUITE a Bit, Hut...Does he have a Good JAB???...Not Really...Does he MOVE His Head Well????...Hell NO...N Fact, Gomez's Defense BLOWS....Really, Gomez ISN'T All that Good in ANY Regard, Except for HEART/DETERMINATION... If U Wanna Reward him for BRAVERY, Feel Free...But to Say he has a BETTER FUNDAMENTAL Base than Mosley, Calzaghe or even Taylor Is VERY WRONG...Moreso, REED Doesn't Get the JMM Analogy @ All...Obviously, Marquez is MUCH More NATURALLY Talented than Gomez...But the Gap in Level of SKILL is AS Extreme, if Not MORESO... Just Say that U LIKE Gomez & Leave it @ that, Hut::...REED Can Respect UNtalented Guys that MAKE Something of Themselves...But All Gomez has Done is Do Pretty Good on a JOURNEYMAN Boxing Reality Show & Then Beat a SHOPWORN Gatti...Off the Top of his Head, REED has MUCH More Respect for Guys like Vito Autuofermo, Frank Fletcher or Saad Muhammad, who Also WEREN'T Blessed w/Incredible Physical Skills Either... REED:mj:
Agree to disagREED.:: Again I don't think you're fully differentiating between fundamentals and physical gifts, although you'll doubtless say you are. He doesn't have the speed, balance or reflex' to pull off the moves he clearly has a complete grasp of against certain guys. But IMHO, he has great 101, just shitty everything else. Suppose bottom line is I just really like his style. He's a budget class model of a style of boxer I really like. He's a replica Super car to me with all the styling & handling but a 100 horse power engine that barely takes it over 75mph. I can still enjoy it though. Maybe his particular style doesn't get you hard like it does for me anyway, I just enjoy watching him. And I stand by the statement that he has better fundamentals than Mosley or Calzaghe! Allot of great athletes succeed despite doing many things wrong and allot of guys can't rise above mediocrity despite doing everything perfect, it's the same across all sports. I mean who had a better grasp of the fundamentals Freddie Roach or Aaron Pryor? Didn't matter because Pryor had a body built for fighting and Roach a body built for computer programming but I bet if I was around then I would enjoy watching Roach fight at his level even though most people would decry him as a bum with no skills.
I understand what you're trying to say. You're trying to say he has nearly flawless mechanics (that's what I heard you say when you sugggested he was JMM without the talent). That's just bull-shit. He slaps his left-hook. He keeps his head up when he throws his right-hand. He doesn't seem to know what a jab is. He's easy to hit. You're way off base with this premise. If he were as good technically as you say, he'd be approaching Arguello status in terms of what he could accomplish. Arguello was never very athletic. He was slow and didn't have half the athletic skill that say, Taylor or Calzaghe has. But he was a superior fighter because his technique was so damn sharp. Gomez doesn't even approach belonging in this category. You make it sound like he throws his punches with perfect form and gets maximal leverage on them. Or that he turns his right hand over just right. None of this is true. And like REED said - he doesn't move his head and his defense is shit. Give me an example of one punch he throws with good fundamentals. You'll be hard pressed.
It's one thing to point out that fighters without good fundamentals can still have great success due to their athletic gifts - RJJ, Molsey, Calzaghe. It's quite another to say that Gomez has good fundamentals. His fundamentals are about as good as Ward's, probably not quite as good actually because he mostly slaps his left hook to the body. But mechanically, he has nothing on Ward. And nobody in their right mind would nominate Ward as a guy with good fundamentals.
Ward's Left Hook to the Body was MORE Textbook or Fundamentally Sound than ANY Punch in Gomez's Arsenal... REED::
