143 catch-weight will only diminish Pacquiao's legacy!

143 catch-weight will only diminish Pacquiao's legacy
July 9, 6:30 AM

Most recent reports coming out from the Manny Pacquiao camp indicate that they now want Miguel Cotto to go down to 143 if they were indeed to meet on top of the ring for a year-ending boxing blockbuster.

Honestly, I was already a little bit skeptical about the 145 or 144 stipulation since it takes away from the accomplishment. If Pacquiao wanted to fight Cotto, people want to see him fight the real Miguel Cotto not a compromised version of him.

The whole Oscar De la Hoya situation was a totally different case. Oscar thought he can take advantage of Pacquiao and his ambitious nature and take the easy way out be fighting a smaller man for his retirement fight. Back then, nobody knew how Pacquiao would do moving up 12 pounds in weight and the disparity in height and size was just too big of a difference for them not to give Pacquiao concessions. Add to that the fact that De la Hoya and Pacquiao were the two most popular boxers during that time and had somewhat of a personal conflict from when Pacquiao spurned the contract he signed with Golden Boy. There were a lot of intangibles that pushed the fight to happen. It was "The Dream Fight", by all means it had to be done.

After the fight however, Pacquiao proved that he can hang in the higher weight classes. He beat De la Hoya at 147 and despite people saying he was dehydrated and all, I still believe he was simply outclassed. It's just a matter of which De la Hoya you believe. The De la Hoya that said before the fight that he was utilizing all the technologies and sciences available for him to lose weight properly and that he was feeling great and stronger than ever (Not to mention employing two of the greatest trainers in boxing history). The De la Hoya that told Freddie Roach after the fight that he simply did not have it anymore and that Pacquiao was just a great fighter and deserved everything he achieved. Or the De la Hoya that told the media weeks after his embarrassing loss that he was simply dehydrated and drained. Personally, I tend to hear-out what people say first and use my observations and logic to make the call. And from what I saw, coupled by Pacquiao’s destruction of the then best 140-pounder in the planet in Ricky Hatton, regardless of what the Golden Boy says, the fact is that Pacquiao is still one of the best fighters even at welterweight. He did not ask Hatton to go below his natural weight and he simply destroyed the linear champ who incidentally was also undefeated at 140. The lack of big names in 140 leaves Pacquiao no choice than to fight the bigger names at 147 if he truly wanted to stage the biggest event and further his legacy.

But if Pacquiao is going to force Cotto into agreeing to fight him at 143, I’d rather have him fight a willing Mosley at 143. The difference is they want it. De la Hoya wanted Pacquiao at 147 and bragged before the fight he felt great in the weight, so he deserved the beating he got and makes his complaints about dehydration sound more like excuses.. So if Mosley wants Pacquiao at 143, by all means.

Cotto has already shown in the past that he could not force his body to lose any more weight. He can legitimately claim that another pound demanded by Pacquiao for him to lose after conceding a couple already is simply overkill. He may very well agree to the 143 catch-weight because the money will be too hard to pass up, but beating Cotto because he is dehydrated nullifies the glory of the victory. The money Pacquiao will make will still be glorious but fans don't get any of the money fighters make anyway so why concern themselves with that. If we're talking about legacy, which I’m sure Pacquiao and his fans value, fighting Cotto at 145-144 which Cotto said he could swing, is enough to keep the fight legitimate. Anything lower than that would somewhat be an abuse of power. That's not what Pacquiao's career and legacy has been about. His mystique is that of an underdog that took on all challenges, not the bully who strongarms and takes advantage of his leverage. And being that he's on the way out, why would he want to taint that image now?

Remember how you felt when you found out Pacquiao was forced to wear Winning gloves instead of his Cleto Reyes punching gloves in his loss to Morales?

In my perfect world, I’d rather Pacquiao really just fight Cotto straight-up at 147 if he really feels he can beat him. Win or lose, there will be no shame in that. If he doesn't feel he can beat Cotto fair and square, then find somebody at 140 and sacrifice a few million dollars for taking a lesser risk. There’s no shame staying at your rightful weight class and sweeping the belts. I believe in earning whatever it is you get in life. To this point, I believe Pacquiao earned everything he has achieved and should be fully credited for all of his victories including his beating of De la Hoya. If he however insists on having Cotto go down to a weight the Puerto Rican already mentioned he couldn’t make and would be extremely uncomfortable with, then a victory over Cotto at 143 will definitely feel half-baked. It’s almost as if it’s not boxing anymore and turns the contest away from Pacquiao versus Cotto into Cotto versus the scales. The biggest payday of his life would be too hard to pass up though for Cotto that 143 would be a bait he might actually just bite.

That isn’t really what Manny Pacquiao has been about though. Pacquiao’s legacy has always been about taking the biggest and most dangerous challenges. That’s how he earned the Mexicans’ respect by beating all their legends. That’s how he made Americans look and remember his name after beating De la Hoya. That’s how he turned the Brits into believers after beating Hatton. What would beating-up a reluctant and drained Cotto at 143 do? He's already the Pound-For-Pound king, why would he want to be called the Drain-Your-Pounds King?

I’m not saying Cotto can’t win and that Pacquiao will have a walk in the park if they do face at 143, but it will definitely take away from the achievement if Manny wins. Most of you might disagree with me, and that's cool, but this is just my take on it; my honest 2 cents. 147 would be perfect, but 144-145 is enough for the fight to make sense.

 

Agree with every word. 143 is bullshit man. Either fight welterweights or don't.

 

Why bitch about it? How about let Cotto make what ever decision he wants. Nobody is holding a gun to his head. If he takes it, that's on him.

 

If this is true, Cotto should tell Manny to suck it and move on.

If Manny (and his groupies) wants the credit for beating Welterweights, then he shouldn't be putting any weight demands on them other than making the Welter 147 lb weight limit.

And, yes, Cotto has the choice, but I hope he doesn't give in to any weight demands like that.

 

Because Manny is the one contriving this situation. Nobody is holding a gun to Cotto's head but this is the biggest fight out there for him by far and Manny is using that leverage to create a bullshit situation that will leave us all with a fight that will satisfy nobody & prove nothing if Manny wins.:dunno:

 

What's funny is that a good chunk of the folks who think it's perfectly ok for Manny to use his current star power to dictate terms that favor him are most likely the same ones who criticize Ray Leonard and others for doing the same. Which is more than a little hypocritical.

 

I actually agree with this.

I would normally criticize such shenanigans, even for a fighter I love.

But the only reason I won't here is because Pacman spent almost half his career as a flyweight.

If anyone deserves a catchweight SLIGHTLY in his favour, it's Pacman.

Oh and the legacy thing is bullshit.

After destroying Cotto, right after destroying Oscar and Hatton back to back - do you think in years to come people are going to be saying "Oh actually, we can't count the cotto win because it was at 143" ::

Of course not, they'll just remember Pacman fucking Cotto up at a weight significantly higher than his natural weight.

 

It won't satisfy Cotto fans apparantly, but I don't give two shits what weight it's fought at, I would personally love to see this fight.

Like I said, if Cotto doesn't like the deal, he's free to walk away from it and fight someone else.

 

Maybe that's what most people will remember. But I think the people who paid attention will put a very big asterisk beside that win if Cotto is forced to come in at 143lb. Imagine if Duran had made Leonard come to 143lb - would people talk about that win as one of the greatest in boxing history? Or would the whole affair just be a big ??? to us today and basically be meaningless since we'd have no idea of which Leonard he fought.

 

Agreed!

 

If Cotto is EASILY Blown Out, ala Hatton, MOST Will Say that his Performance was COMPROMISED Due to Weight, Mex...Nearly a Year Later, People (Especially BOXING People) R STILL Saying Dela "Killed Himself @ the Scales" for the Pac Fight...Of Course Manny will Get AND DESERVE Some Credit for Being Such a LITTLE Guy, Slaying All of these Noticeably BIGGER Dragons...But There'll Also B a Faction that can RIGHTFULLY Say Cotto Wasn't "COTTO" @ 143...

Cotto is a SHORT, THICK Framed Welter...He Struggled MIGHTILY to Make 140 & that was YEARS Ago...@ this Stage of his Career, 143 would B a TAXING Weight for Cotto to Shrink Down To...

REED ALREADY Favors Manny's SPEED & POWER to FEAST on the Much SLOWER, More HITTABLE Cotto @ 147...@ 143, the BIT of a Chance that Cotto has is GREATLY Diminished...Cotto's RELYING on Most of the Attributes Associated w/Being a BIGGER Man, but he'd Only B the WEAKER Man if they Fought @ 143...



REED:mj:

 

agREED....

& Best Believe, it Duran DID Make Leonard Come in @ 143, Leonard would STILL B Using the Weight as a Excuse, when Asked about that Fight...But Since Duran DIDN'T, Leonard NEVER Attempts to Diminish Duran's Win Over him...


REED:hammert:

 

Just So We're CLEAR, REED WOULDN'T have ANY Issues w/Floyd vs. Pac Taking Place @ 143...Hopefully, Everybody Realizes that FREDDIE ROACH is the 1 Making these Demands, NOT Manny...REED Doesn't Think Manny Could Care LESS about Who he Fights OR the Weight...It's ROACH that's MILKING the Situation & Being MANIPULATIVE...

NOT Manny...


REED:nono:

 

Pac is just trying to insure that Cotto fights at 144-145.

 

Cotto has been saying since the beginning that he would fight Pacquiao at 145........no lower...

 

x2 on every word.

 

YEP!

 

Cotto will not go for it. It will be 145 lbs or nothing. Fucking Roach should shut the fuck up.

 

hope Cotto doesn't go for it.....Pacquiao/Roach most be believing the hype....just like Mayweather before 'em....but it takes two to make it happen. Let see how Pacquiao vs. Bradley/Campbell/Valero do on PPV #'s side....:stir:

 

from a local newspaper:

Sobre el megacombate ante Pacquiao, Cotto indicó que se mantiene firme en que lo más que bajará será a 145 libras. “Mi petición es la misma, no cambiaâ€￾, expresó el monarca al tiempo que sostuvo que la negociación “sigue igual. No hay nada nuevoâ€￾.

Cotto added that he will not go down further than 145 lbs. "My petition is the same, it doesn't changes" "It's the same, there's nothing new".

 

:bears::bears::bears:

 

He's looking out for his fighter...as he did in the negotiations for DLH and Hatton.

I can't really fault Roach for doing that.

That's not to say I have much interest in seeing Cotto try to make 143.

It's up to Cotto and his camp not to be compromised before the fight...unless they think the payday is worth it.

But these negotiations are games of chicken, and Pac/Roach are proving to be pretty damn good at it.

 

I don't fault Roach for trying this crap, but I fault Manny for not telling him to cut it out. If Manny "couldn't care less" what weight he fights at, and he's this fearless warrior (which so far it appears he is), then tell your trainer & your promoters to stop the bullshit and fight people at the weights they campaign at.

People say "oh, well if Cotto doesn't want the fight at 143, he can just walk away". Fine. Then why aren't you arguing "If Manny doesn't want the fight at 147, he can just not bother to make the offer." Of course both are free to accept/decline. But going through the machinations of making a fight and then fucking around by monkeying constantly with the proposed weight is amateurish and embarrassing professionally.

Also, since Manny knows that he is worth $$$$ in future PPVs, he is intentionally pushing this. You say "Cotto is free to walk away", but that is like 2 teams in the NFL ready to play the NFC championship, or even the super bowl, and one team says to the other "well you have to play with one less guy on the field or we won't play." Of course the other team can just "walk away"... but what is at stake is attractive & important enough professionally that you just may get some coaches who say "the hell with it.. we'll beat 'em any way they like it!"

This is what Manny is doing, and it's shameful. Cotto can and should walk away, but I agree 100% that the fight at this weight diminishes if not Pac's legacy, then definitely the value of this fight, if it has any value at all at 143. It's one thing if Cotto comes begging for a fight, but from what I understand Pac came to Cotto on this one.

I mean, come on, are we to understand now that you will go down in history as beating "heavyweights" if you manage to convince Wlad Klitschko to fight at 225 instead of 260? Or beating "cruiserweights" if you get some belt holder to come down and fight at 178? And on and on it goes. If you want to beat WELTERS fight at fucking WELTER.

 

Not so fast REED. I just read on fight hype.com that is no longer the case. Here's what was written:

many had assumed that both sides already agreed on a catch-weight after trainer Freddie Roach revealed that he had no problem with the bout taking place at 145 pounds. It appears that Pacquiao has different plans as he admitted that he'd still like to shoot for a catch-weight of 142-143 pounds.

Apparently Freddie changed his mind after speaking to Cotto's nutritionist who said Cotto couldn't make anything under 144lbs. So after Arum and Freddie agreed that 145 would work it was Manny who decided he wanted to have the fight at 143.

So it looks like Manny (who is being a bitch here IMO) may have to revisit fighting Mosley who should also not accept such a ludicrous demand. Both Shane and Cotto should use this oppurtunity to freeze out Pacuiao and have their own rematch.

 

Cotto may not agree to 143
now
but I'll be very surprised if he actually misses out on a Pacq fight because Pacq holds out at 143.
Cotto will try to make 143 if he has to.
Money talks and right now Pacq has the biggest voice unless Mayweather starts courting Cotto.

 

I was going to have a bit of a rant, but this guy has said everything I would have said...

MTF :bears:

 

I don't know if you didn't read my post or not, but Cotto's nutritionist did say that it is impossible for Cotto to get under a 144lbs.

 

The more I think about it the more I say Cotto should say FUCK YA'LL 147 or no fight.

 

Co-Sign...


REED:hammert: