khan vs kotelnik

I actually think Khan beats Maidana. Maidana is big and very powerful but he is also slow, wide and sloppy at times. Khan has every chance of being able to flurry and move his way to a decision.

MTF

 

Well Prescott is not big, not very powerful, slow, wide and sloppy. If Maidana has shown one thing against Ortiz and Kotelnik it is that his power is legit and not Columbian.

 

The Prescott result was a fluke, a bit like McCall-Lewis 1, he wouldn't lose to him again

 

Oh and Khan beats Hatton quite comfortably, Hatton has done well in his career but he is an over-achiever, as Khan is alot more talented and lost to someone as ordinary as Prescott you could say at this point he has under-achieved, which is crazy when you take into account he has just won a world title in only his 22nd fight at the age of 22.

 

Khan's talent doesn't have anything to do with him beating Hatton right now. The factor is Hatton's past two KO losses. Hatton is clearly on the downhill. He would lose to most top contenders right now.

 

As I said previously, I would have picked Khan before the Hatton-Pacquiao fight as well

 

Nobodies seen any evidence of Hatton being shot.

 

He loses to the two best fighters of his generation and he's on the downhill? Would a 'peak' Hatton have done any better against Floyd or Manny?

This whole 'Hatton is shot' malarky rests on some pretty specious reasoning.:doh: He beat the shit out of Malinaggi just one fight previous.

 

Yea I don't think Hatton is "shot" per se, just not good enough at top level, plus he KHAN't handle speed. Amir beats him.

 

That's certainly all true, but Khan is about 3 million miles away from the top level, mate. Pac & Mayweather were the two best guys of their generation, Khan is just an athlete with boxing gloves. A career as good as Zab Judah's will be over performing for this dufus.

If Khan beats him it's because he's shot. If he isn't shot he makes Khan hims girlfriend. (yes I will resolutely refuse to EVER give Khan any credit for anything :: Guy fucking blows)

 

talent and athleticism are two distinct things. Zab Judah was more athletic than Julio Cesar Chavez but had about 1 1000th as much talent.

Hatton is a more talented fighter than Khan in my book.

 

Khan is going to be trouble for anyone while he is still standing. He outpointed Mario Kindelan which is like outtalking Don King.

I rated Khan as the best prospect in boxing for the past few years. But I waver on the guy now. Not because of talent, but because of durability and chin. Hell, I picked Kotelnik over him because Kotelnik has shown an ability to shut down talent.

Khan got through Kotelnik, but plenty of questions remain about how he will deal with different styles. I agree with Hut*Hut--if Hatton IS shot, it's not because of how he did against Pacq and Floyd that proves it.

One of the best things about 140 is the variety out there:
Khan--talent and handspeed
Bradley--volume
Witter-unorthodox quirkiness
Hatton--bruising pressure
Peterson--American style boxing puncher
Pacq--power, speed, stamina, relentlessness

If Pacq, Hatton, and Khan weren't already francises, you could make a nice little super 6 tournament right there.

 

They might not be absolutely the same thing but they are very closely related. If you are implying he is just an athlete and nothing else, then we will have to agree to disagree, the kid can most certainly fight, as mikE said, he has a win over Kindelan at amateur level (regardless of the "fix" theories which imo are bullshit to yet again discredit him), and whilst I know you are not a fan of amateur boxing, it is still very very impressive for such a young man to beat someone like that.

I bet you there are techniques Roach could teach Khan which Hatton could not pull off, which would make him more talented. Hell even Floyd Snr was saying that when he first started training Ricky it was like taking over "an amateur". Fact of the matter is, even after all that, Ricky has proven he cannot adapt, whereas the signs are already there that Khan is improving under the tuition of Roach, and there is still loads more for him to learn, and which he WILL learn, because he is more talented.

 

Oh and guarantee you if Khan fought Floyd he would have more success than Ricky did. And before anyone says anything NO I AM NOT SUGGESTING FOR ONE MOMENT THAT KHAN WOULD BEAT MAYWEATHER but he would pose more problems for Floyd than Ricky did, ABSOLUTELY. Remember my thread about the best natural assets you can have in boxing? Well it was unanimous the most valuable asset you can have in boxing is HANDSPEED, which Amir has in abundance.

 

The 'onliest' reason Khan would pose "problems" for Floyd would be due to his unwillingness to engage.

I get the feeling that Roach wants Khan to do everything BUT engage and scrap.

I said this earlier...put Ortiz in with Khan and I guarantee Khan gets knocked out. I don't think Khan gets up from the right hand ortiz got dropped with in the first round and I don't think Khan takes ANY of the hard shots maidana got up from.

 

There has been considerable evidence of Hatton having been sliding towards shotness for the last three years. A fighter with his lifestyle would inevitably have a shorter career-span and so it is coming to pass.

Indeed, I recall having this exact conversation on here about a year ago with MWS and some others. Khan's handspeed was showing signs of declining and his footspeed too. He had stopped throwing jabs and was relying on a lead left hook instead- something he rarely did earlier in his career. Now we have seen a quite marked decline in his punch resistance: the guy who walked through Kostya Tszu's best shots has been badly KTFO twice- once by a monster puncher in Manny and another by a slickster with no real noted power in Mayweather Jr.

The Mallinaggi fight might have fooled some but not those who have watched Hatton through his entire career. Paulie is slick but has no power whatsoever: he was tailor made for any version of Hattton.

The Hatton of four of five years ago would have walked Khan down and splattered him into little pieces. Now, it's quite possible that Khan decisions him or even stops him. That is not a reflection of Khan's 'improvement' but simply a reflection of Hatton's marked decline. An obvious decline to anyone who has watched every single Hatton fight...

MTF

 

That fight was one of the biggest and most obvious fixes of the last ten years. Immediately after Khan's 'win', which was broadcast live on terrestrial TV here and had an almost 30% audience share, Kindelan was awarded a very cushy little job with the British Amateur Boxing Association, which 'm sure was nothing more than sheer coincidence...

MTF :laughing:

 

Slice: if you don't think that fight was fixed then so be it, but you are wrong and it has nothing to do with 'discrediting' Khan. I put a lot more value in Khan's Olympic final performance against Mario, in which Khan acquitted himself very well and was very competative against an amateur legend.

MTF

 

Khan would beat Ortiz or Maidana. No doubt in my mind.

 

MTF how much credit would you give Khan if he were to beat Hatton? To some people here it seems even if he beat Floyd and Pac at the same time with one hand they would still find a way to discredit the geezer.

 

Agreed. The fight was set up with the sole intention of launching Khan's pro career, the fix was in from the start. And who's gonna be more amenable to a bribe than a veteran Cuban guy with barely a penny to his or his families name in a one off non-tournament bout?

Fix.

 

you stupid british cunts are still hating on Khan eh?

He fought a disciplined fight and is a VERY good fighter...He almost folded the the defending champ with right hands to the body...Khan always throws combos and has improving ring generalship. I like the kid.

 

he's thick as pig shit in and out of the ring.

 

I don't get it either, he clearly has alot of talent and can go far in boxing yet everyone gets on his back. He's still raw but as I've said he is improving all the time. Apart from the fact he can't drive he comes across as a good kid and doesn't really talk shit either, and admits mistakes he's made and sought out the best trainer in the business to improve him and hone his talent. I really don't get the hate :dunno:

 

Fair enough man. It's pretty unprecedented for me to take such an instant disliking to a guy, I'm having trouble working it out myself. I'll try and work through this myself here.....

1) I really, really hate his style. That's the biggest thing. He's the absolute antithesis of everything I like in fighters. No poise or sense that he's thinking in there at all, no ability to fight inside at all, shakey fundamentals, doesn't negotiate range in a measured way, has poor balance & footwork. And all that is basically just overcome with athleticism & speed - and raw speed just doesn't float my boat style wise at all, it's not what I watch boxing for.

2) He's really, really stupid. Like epically dumb. I dunno maybe I've just invested myself in the notion that boxing takes some sort of innate intelligence at the top level and he undermines that? Or maybe it just draws even more of my attention to his stupidity in the ring. Either way listening to him makes my fucking ears bleed.

3) The whole amateur pedigree as a launching pad to his success. I fucking hate modern amateur boxing. It's degenerated into a glorified game of tag. It seems to breed guys with no subtlety or guile and I hate that success there gives you such a puddy up that it's washing the pro ranks with these soulless robot fighters. Any hype job at the start of a fighters career makes you wary but for me personally that it came off of the Olympics just got my goat up even more.

Those are the main three reasons I can think of. I don't think I'll ever like him.

 

Assanine reasons to dislike a fighter...Only the first one is legitimate the other two are a pathetic attempt from you trying to explain away and justify an irrational hate.

Even the first reason is stupid. Just because you enjoy a certain style of fighting doesn't mean a guy with a different style is garbage.

 

You forgot to add you hate him because his head is shaped like a Q-Tip

 

Blow it out your arse flaps. I don't need any 'justifications' for my dislike of a fighter whatsoever. I didn't say I wished harm on the dude, I just said I don't enjoy watching him and those are the reasons why. And frankly the fact they are dumber than a ring post and have a hideous amateurish style are better reasons than most guys have for disliking fighters.

Better than 'he beat the guy I like so I hate him'...or 'I don't like the other guys who like him so I hate him'...or 'he's from mexico/puerto rico Im from Puerto Rico/mexico so I hate him' which is the usual shit.

 

Yeah I prefer guys like Alfonso Gomez to those silly guys with all that bullshit amatuer experience...:notallthere: