khan vs kotelnik

Translation: I've had enough of this verbal beatdown, please leave me alone.

 

And the British, of course. Kindelan is probably the most high profile Cuban to come to the UK to spread the Ammy gospel according to Cuba. You know the one: quick hands, scoring shots which don't really hurt etc

The Soviets success has come largely through sheer weight of numbers and extreme state funding rather than taking a deliberately contradictory approach. In any event, I'm not saying that there is only one way to win in amateur boxing. I have instead constantly referred to the influence of the style on UK boxing

My 'beloved trainer', as you politely describe him, has been differentiating for the last ten years actually. He's not veven my trainer: he's one of the many trainers I am firends/associates with. There are five boxing gyms within a few miles of here and I visit most of them from time to time. Your patronising tone is most welcome, though... :notallthere:

Moreover, this is the crux of the point I have been making. British boxing is thriving in the amateur game and these ammies are starting to come through to the pros, with Amir Khan leading the way and Joe Calzaghe, he of the 'slappy' punches and the master of winning UD's fresh in the mind. You don't believe me? Watch Cleaverly, Braker and De Gale in the next few years. Bear in mind that de Gale said, live on TV, that he has only just starting to be taught how to throw body punches...

American Boxing fans have been bitching for years. This has nothing to do with styles or training methods and is everything to do with a dearth of US boxing talent and the rise of European beltholders.

Be honest now, how often are body shots actually awarded points in top level amateur fights? Of course they are supposed to score. But supposed and reality rarely match up here.

whilst I agree in part, you can't simply dimiss the last major amateur meet as an 'anomoly'. Exactly the sort of boxing Hut and I are talking about flourished at those games and the judges, whilst shocking, showed the next generation of amateurs and ammy trainers the way to Olympic success. Lots of quick head shots...[/QUOTE]

We are going to have to agree to disagree here methinks.

MTF :dunno:

 

I'm not knocking Amir at all. I said it was a good win for him and it was.

MTF

 

Seriously dude, you have contributed fuck all to this thread apart from your usual banal faux-sarcasm, some asinine insults and some pointless generalisations based on nothing more than the interpretations of your extremely tiny mind.

Congratulations. You must be very proud.

MTF :notallthere:

 

I proved you were an idiot for saying that the changes in amateur boxing was changing the pro game. Anyone objective person who reads this thread would agree with me. Stop crying like a bitch and admit your wrong.

 

In conclusion HutHut and Meetthefeebles have tried to explain away their irrational hatred of Amir Khan by claiming he is a product of a new tainted amateur cabal that has been producing for the last decade pitty pat fighters that are nothing like the great hard hitting super fighters of the early 90's and late 80's :notallthere:

They failed dismally and are now trying to claim they only meant UK fighters.::

 

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you. Fighters fight with all sort of different 'styles' in the ams, that much is true, certainly the eastern block countries have taken a different approach in adapting to the scoring system than have the Brits. But they all work within the remit of that scoring system which rewards certain strategies over others. Or much, much more to the point greatly penalizes certain strategies - namely, body punching, in fighting, focusing on hurtful punches vs volume, subtle defense.

Would you agree with that?

 

Summary of this verbal beatdown:

Hut*Hut: comment
MTF: comment
Barristan: You're talking shite
Hut*Hut: comment
MTF: comment
Barristan: you're talking shite
Hut*Hut: comment
MTF: comment
Barristan: you're talking shite
Hut*Hut: yawn fine, lets agree to disagree then
Barristan: ha ha! I win, verbal beat down!
Barristan: I've won, verbal beat down, verbal beat down!
Barristan: you's were talking shite, I win verbal beat down!

You're absolute pish mate.::

 

:laughing:

 

artie:

 

(8)We are going to have to agree to disagree here methinks.

MTF :dunno:[/quote]

(8) This is one point where we actually may agree 100%, haha

(1) Some Cubans hit hard; some do not. Most have very fast hands; Odlanier does not. Their style works in the ams, but it also works in the pros. And it hasn't changed. Diosbelys Hurtado could be on their team today and he is from the early 90's. Same with Ariel Hernandez, etc.

(2) Limiting this to the UK is problematic because you've had exactly one class of good ams and you are trying to draw conclusions when there aren't enough samples. This can be as simple as you have better boxers now or your trainers sucked and your fighters needed Kindelan.

I really don't like blaming the soviet success on pure numbers. Especially when you look at the fact that each country is relatively small and still has individual success. The soviet style wins and is completely dissimilar to the plague you are claiming exists in am boxing.

(3) You can't make a silk purse. I have no idea how good said trainer is.

(4) Pointing to Calz works against the point you are trying to make. Calz and his style have been around for 15 years. DeGale is one fighter.

(5) And yet, I've heard the same points you are making from the American complainers for many years.

(6) Honestly, body punches score all the time. Clean punches to the head get missed due to the nature of the computer scoring, but head punches are easier to see from most angles. Amateur boxing is about clean punches.

(7) It was an anomaly and the fact that you aren't comparing it to other years makes me wonder what you are comparing it to? I'm not going to do it now unless I get more interested in this conversation, but I KNOW that far fewer points were scored in the 2008 olympics per bout than I've ever seen before in am boxing. And by a lot.

However, just because the scoring was lower didn't mean that the cream didn't rise to the top. In most cases, it did. Until I see more current am boxing, I'm not going to concede that anything was learned from or taught by the 2008 olympics.