Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard

Leonard fought and beat the best.

Jones fought and beat Garbage Men, Dog Catchers and Dish Washers.


TFK

 

& Virgil Hill, James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, John Ruiz & Others...



REED:hammert:

 

The only fighter we never really saw Roy fight was DM. Who else was there? Maybe Nunn? How do we say he wasted his talent because he beat everyone but one fighter?

 

Middleweight is the only weight both guys fought at or near in their respective primes.

 

This may be true but you have to factor in that Roy was unwilling to take the chances that Ray was. Roy would pot shot a guy for 12 dominating rds and be content with that. Ray would be more willing to take a guy out and go for the KO when he felt it was time.


I think Roy was the more talented guy with the better reflexes. I think Ray was more versatile and more fundamentally sound.

 

Jones had as much pure talent as anyone who has ever gotten in a ring, but Leonard's level of opposition is so remarkable and he proved the intangible toughness of only the rarest fighters and I dont think you could say that for Roy, as good as he was

 

SRL had a far superior lvl of opp, and proved that he was a great fighter by showing heart, ability to triumph in adversity & toughness. I can't say that about RJJ.

SRL-GR8 fighter
RJJ-GR8 Talent

 

He applied it better than Judah or Dirrel but not anywhere near as well as Ray Leonard. That's my opinion. I don't think Roy could have beaten guys as good as Hearns & Duran p4p because I don't think he was anywhere near as good a boxer as Ray.

 

I meant this thread to be question about who was the better fighter in their primes, not who was the greater (since Leonard obviously did more).

I think you hit the nail here. People who talk about who had the better technique or less natural abilities are missing the point. Being the better fighter means the ability to win fights and nothing less. In that sense, I feel Jones takes it.

There is no correct and incorrect way for defense for example: Vitali Klitschko clearly has the better defense compared to Holyfield even though Holyfield's techniques might look better. Roy Jones had an unbelievably good defense (IMO better than say Toney). It was based on his reflexes more than technique but so what?

 

Effective defence isn't just who takes the fewest shots though. It's who takes the fewest shots while being able to mount an effective offence in a variety of situations. Jones took very few shots against the guys he faced, but the reliance on reflex' and distance meant he brought his own output down to what, 30-40 shots a round to do so? You don't beat guys like a prime Duran or Hearns p4p with that kind of output, IMO and Jones didn't have the fundamentals to take so few shots in higher paced fight against an elite, elite guy. And probably didn't have the chin to win while taking those extra shots, based on how he collapsed when hit cleanly later in his career. That's my opinion.

BTW, I rate Jones much higher than some people. I think he's top 25 all time. But I don't think he was as good as Leonard.

 

You are right that good defense means also that you have to be able to punch, because otherwise it doesn't win fights (Dirrel). But in his prime, Roy hardly got outlanded in any rounds, much less full fights.

Also, I don't quite follow your logic in that 40 punches a round are not enough to win the best. Yes they are, if the other great fighter can not land as much. I think prime Jones was so quick and sharp that he could have outlanded any fighter in his prime

 

Well again, it's opinions isn't it. IMO, it's the nature of physical gifts whether it's power or speed that it'll let you look spectacular against lesser guys, but without rock solid fundamentals & a solid chin you'll usually come unstuck against the best.

 

Ali

 

U DON'T Think Roy Jones Could've Employed the Same Strategy that Sugar Ray Used to Beat Duran???....U DON'T Think Roy Jones Could've Utilized MOVEMENT & SPEED to Beat Duran, as Leonard Did in the RE???...Fuuuurthermore, How Can U Question Roy's Chin yet Say NATHAN about Hearns???...In his PRIME, BEFORE Declining, Hearns Chin FAILED him...If Roy Jones HITS Hearns Flush, the Party is OVER Dude...



REED:hammert:

 

Even Factoring it in, a PRIME Roy Jones Got hit LESS than a Prime Ray Leonard...That = BETTER Defense...


REED:hammert:

 

Yep...Ali Certainly WASN'T the Pillar of "Rock Solid Fundamentals"...


REED:hammert:

 

Well when you are fighting tomato cans I'm assuming you probably would get hit less Reed.

The difference is that I think Leonard didn't mind getting hit, probably sparked him a little. Roy went out of his way not to get hit because that was more important to him.

Ray was a weird fighter and probably made some fights harder than what they had to be because he like to scrap. He proved that in the first duran fight. Roy would never do that with Duran. It was just in his nature to brawl.

Cupey

 

So what U're Saying is, Roy Jones was the SMARTER Fighter???....



REED:cheer:

 

No. I'm saying Roy Jones had a different style. If he was the smarter fighter we wouldn't be having this discussion and he would rank higher than Leonard. But since he isn't...

Also, can you do something about your signature? Is it necessary to see a poster everytime we post. Can you resize that or something. If you don't know how I can do it for you.

Cupey

 

WHOthefuck R U, the Owner or Something???...REED Would Rather Not, but Thanks for Asking...



REED::

 

But Seriously, Shoot an Email Addy & REED'll Send a Pic for RE-Sizing...

 

LOL. Smart ass. I'll do it tonight, at work at the moment. It's just hard to Reed a thread when you have a huge picture every other posts. Trying not to discourage new members or current ones.

C

 

I personally doubt it. Roy never faced anyone anywhere near as good as Duran and based on how he folded later in his career I don't think he had the chin or boxing chops to do what Ray did.

AgREED. That's why Hearns ranks down in the 20-25 range with Jones and not in the top 5 with Ray. And you're right Roy could beat Hearns (p4p)if he landed big but the converse is doubly true. Personally I think a welterweight Hearns is better than Jones or anyone he ever fought.

 

I think Jones' movement and quick counters would make Duran's stomach cramp quickly:stir:

 

Again, we disagree. ::

 

agREED...

It's NOT like Leonard Did Anything Special that Night...He just KEPT DISTANCE from Duran, FIRED Quick Salvo's & DISengaged B 4 Duran Could Do Anything about it...Roy Jones Made a CAREER Out of that...

& if Duran was UNNERVED by Leonard's Showboating, he'd have COMPLETELY Come UNglued by Roy's Antics...



REED:hammert:

 

You just proved TFK's response is accurate. Off the top of your head, you name John Ruiz? That is how unimpressive Jones opponents were.

Virgil Hill was a good, not great fighter. He lost to a shot Tommy Hearns at 175::::

Jones fought Hopkins and Toney in the early mid 90's Hopkins in 1993 and Toney in late 1994 if I remember correctly. He then fought Ruiz is 2003::::There was a lot of filler in that resume for sure.

I would like to take this time to remind you BEFORE Jones fought Ruiz YOU referred to Him as John Lousy.::::Yet, he is the top 4 in Jones' level of opp. Before you say it, Yes John Ruiz was a top 5 heavyweight. Keep in mind a top 5 heavyweight is not what it used to be. That's like saying you have the one of the top 5 hottest chicks at Ricky Lake's diet boot camp.

 

didn't a prime Roy Jones lose to a no-chin, pillow-fisted midget called Montell Griffin?

 

jones would of kill srl to big to fast

 

Wrong Poster, Homegirl...REED NEVER Referred to him as That...But REED DOES Remember a Certain Poster Saying "Roy WON'T SIGN the Contract"...THEN, when Roy Did, REED Remember's a Certain Poster Saying, "Roy WON'T Go Thru w/It...This Fight is a RISK & Roy DOESN'T Take Risks"....

Yet SINCE Roy Did that, this SAME "Certain Poster" HAS YET to EAT CROW & ADMIT they were Wrong about the Whole Situation...Any Ideas on who that "Certain Poster" Might B???...



REED:atu: