Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard

Yes, Ray would beat Jones Jr at middleweight, but would Jones beat Leonard at welterweight? (just as ridiculous IMO). But at least Leonard beat one of the greatest middleweights to ever live so while many (Jones fans) will laugh at me thinking Ray would be Jones jr, I'm sure would've found that chin at some point.

Actually Ray did pretty good against naturally bigger fighters in Hagler, Hearns, etc.

 

So I guess with that logic if we were to pit prime for prime Zab Judah and Roberto Duran, you would of course take Judah?

 

I agree this isn't head to head. Simply in their prime who was better. The edge goes to Leonard because he proved it against some of the greatest. They were both great athletes but Roy lacked the superstar names on his resume.

Cupey

 

"Change his Style"???:notallthere:...Roy's ALWAYS Controlled the DISTANCE a Fight was Fought @, Using his SPEED, ACCURACY, MOBILITY & SHOWMANSHIP to Befuddle & Dominate his Foes....& that's PRECISELY what Ray Leonard did to Beat & Frustrate Duran in the RE...

So Roy WOULDN'T have to "Change" Anything....& Roy would hit Duran HARDER than Ray Leonard was Hitting him...



REED:hammert:

 

Lou Del Valle SHITS on Kevin Howard...WHAT World Title did Kevin Howard EVER Have???...Better Yet, WHAT World Title did Kevin Howard EVER FIGHT FOR???...

That Grave U're Digging is what, about 6 ft. Deeeeeeeeeep Now???....

REED:atu:

 

Welcome to our "Marvelous" ALIAS...


REED:shit:

 

LEAVE ALREADY!









::

 

So did Jones.

 

Well Sugar beat one of the greatest welterweights, and one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. There is nobody on Roy's resume even close to Duran and I would argue Hearns too. Not to say that he couldn't, simply that he didn't because there was nobody around like those two guys.

Cupey

 

Ouch. I'm still here and will still be here during the transition and after. Don't fear me, I can't afford to fly to Hawaii to kick your but LOL

Cupey

 

:hammert:

If you're counting the aerobics instructors, then you're doing ok. ::

Ruiz has been a top 5 since Lewis retired. Hell, he was top 5 when Lewis was around.

 

Yep, but Roy's Critics will Say that Bernard was "Green", yet PRETEND that Sugar Ray Fought a PRIME Marvin Hagler....EVERY EXCUSE in the Book is Used to DIScredit Roy's Opposition, yet Critics NEVER Put THEIR Favorite Fighters Opposition Under that SAME Microscope...

Using the "Rationale" of the Typical RJ Hater, U Could just as Easily CRITICIZE Sugar Ray for LOSING to a "Blown Up Lightweight" in Duran...

REED:shit:

 

Well you could almost argue that Sugar lost to Marvin, while Roy beat Hopkins clearly--despite Hopkins being green.

However, Leonard was the man for not only beating Duran but making him quit. Plus that hard fought win over the great Thomas Hearns was unbelievable. But after that Leonard was probably worse than Roy in hand picking opponents like a shot Hagler or Donny Lalonde. He even got the crap beat out of him by Hearns. However, since this is prime for prime Sugar man had a better chance to prove himself over better opposition which is why he leads in this pole. Every person that voted for Roy should be shot.

Cupey

 

well in fairness it's a 100% subjective poll, the question wasn't 'greatest' it was 'best'. I mean Frazier had much better opposition to prove himself against than Mike Tyson but I don't think many'd say a person who said Mike was better should be shot.

Personally I think Ray was better, but it's hardly RIDICULOUS if you think Roy was..... neither were at their best but Hopkins & Toney were no slouches nonetheless, it's not like Glen Kelly & Clinton Woods were the best guys we have to judge Roy against.

 

Now Ray's getting shit on for fighting a supposed shot Hagler? :: Is this the same shot Hagler that was 13-0 with 12 ko's in title fights leading up to his fight with Ray? Hard to believe that a Jone's fan is trying to cut down Ray's resume when it is CLEARLY far superior. I understand being a fan of a fighter but how could someone be so blind?

 

no Jones fans said he was shot. REED said he was past prime, which is indisputable & Cupey isn't a Roy fan

 

REED has ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED that Sugar Ray's Resume AND CAREER Was Better than Roy's, but REED's Applying the SAME Logic Across the Board...If Bernard was "Green" when Roy Beat him, the Hagler was PAST PRIME when Sugar Ray Beat him...& Duran was a "Blown Up Lightweight"...

After All, Hagler had just Come Off 1 of his WORST Title Defense Performances Against Mugabi, when Sugar Ray All of a Sudden Felt like he Could Beat Hagler...In Fact, Leonard was in Attendance @ the Fight...Hagler WASN'T a Terribly Active Fighter by the Point Either...He had ONE Fight in 85 (Hearns), ONE Fight in 86 (Mugabi), THEN Fought Leonard Nearly 13 Months Later, GIVING Leonard the # of Rounds he Wanted AND the Size of the Ring he Wanted...

REED is Sick & Tired of Guys NITPICKING Roy Jones, While FAILING to Do LIKEWISE w/Other Fighters....



REED:hammert:

 

RJJ was too affected by what happened to Gerald McClelland. Sugar Ray.

 

in what sense? how was he affected? did it make him shy away from tough competition? or are you referring more to his style of fighting?

 

you mean what irrelevant paper title?::

yeh
they are just worlds apart aren't they :atu:

 

Roy didn't exactly do that against Griffin did he :notallthere:
....& Duran would hit Roy HARDER than Motell was hitting him... and also not have a china chin

 

I see no reason to get hit when you can avoid doing so, but I don't think he fought the best ge could have.

 

Kevin Howard NEVER Even So Much as FOUGHT for an "Irrelevant Paper Title" so YES, Him & Del Valle WERE "World's Apart"....


REED:atu::atu:

 

Roy Could Fight Any # of Ways...The Way he Fought in the 1st Griffin Fight, the Way he Fought in the RE or the Way he Fought Against Toney, Ruiz, etc...The Thing is, Sugar Ray Took the Most RISK FREE Way of Fighting Duran & MADE HIM QUIT...Guys like YOU BITCH about Roy Not Taking Risks, yet In the Next Breath U DON'T Think he Could FIGHT That Way???...

Do U HONESTLY Think a Former Lightweight Hit HARDER than a Lightheavyweight???...Lb 4 Lb, Duran Hit Harder than Griffin, but Shot for Shot, it's DOUBTFUL...9 Times of 10, when U Weigh 40 Lbs MORE than a Guy, your Punches will have MORE Effect...

PLEASE Keep DIGGING Though...That Grave's Down to about 9ft Now...



REED:laughing::laughing:

 

I thought Hagler looked excellent against Mugabi. It was the Duran fight that I thought he looked like shit in. Checking on the internet, there is some saying the Mugabi fight was what inspired Leonard, but I'll go with this from http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/821/revisiting-hagler-leonard:

As an HBO commentator, Leonard did the color commentary for the Hagler-Duran bout in November of 1983. Leonard said it wasn't until Hagler defended his title against Roberto Duran that he saw a vulnerability in Hagler that he could exploit, but he kept it to himself. Leonard revealed after the fight that he noticed Hagler could be hit with lead rights, and that he wasn't nearly as formidable when he had to assume the role of the aggressor for the whole fight. Hagler was a counter-puncher who was at his best when his opponents moved to him. All you have to do to confirm this is look at Hagler' title defenses during his seven year reign as champion. Only two fighters went the distance with him, Roberto Duran and Ray Leonard. Ironically, they were the only two fights in which Hagler was forced to be the aggressor the whole fight.

 

Reed, calling Duran a blown up lightweight is almost ridiculous dude. I'm not saying he was prime at anything but lightweight, but shit dude the guy was beast at any weight. Same for Hearns. But Roberto Duran is probably a top 5 greatest of all time on any p4p list. What confuses me is that Hearns is so far are people's p4p greatest list but he beat Duran and even won a title at light heavyweight and cruiserweight. That's crazy considering how lanky the dude is.

Anyway, everyone should stop making this into a show shitty Roy's resume was or who would beat who. Makes no difference really. For this poll the correct answer is Ray Leonard, probably a top 10 great of all time. Roy's career isn't over just yet, despite what some may think, so we can't really rate him. However, I don't think he'll make top 15.

Cupey


Cupey

 

I can assure you that Tommy Hearns hit harder than Griffin at any weight. Probably Duran too, if not equal to the light hitting Griffin.

Cupey

 

Well, for 1, Hearns DIDN'T Begin his Pro Career as a BANTAMWEIGHT, NOR Did he Win his 1st Pro Title @ 135 lbs...AND, Hearns Actually REGISTERED Meaningful KO's Fighting @ 175 lbs & Higher...

So if Esteban DeJesus was Hit by a 135 lb Duran AND a 175 lb Griffin, U're HONESTLY Telling REED that DeJesus WOULDN'T B Affected ANY Differently????....


REED::

 

Pound for pound, Joe Louis the greatest fighter who ever lived. He's badder than Cassius Clay, he's badder than Sugar Ray, he's badder than... who's that new boy? Mike Tyson? Looks like a bulldog! He's badder than him too! He could whip Mike Tyson's ass, he could whip all there asses!!"

 

It's No More "Ridiculous" than it is to Call Bernard "Green" when Roy Fought him, or James Toney "Out of Shape"....U've Been Guilty of BOTH on MORE than 1 Occasion...



REED:shit: