Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard

Bullshit...

DeJesus Beat Duran And.....???...Antonio Tarver would DEFINITELY Rank HIGHER Lb for Lb than Esteban DeJesus Would....



REED:hammert:

 

Based on...losing to ever semi-decent fighter he ever faced the first time out?

Based on...being embarassed by a 40-year old smaller hopkins

Based on...underperforming consistently throughout his life?

I'm curious to know, who are these Duran nuthuggers you speak of. When have I ever claimed Duran was a better fighter than Sugar Ray Leonard?

 

I was talking about Leonard losing to Duran. Sorry.

Cupey

 

Instead of Denigrating Tarver, who BEAT Roy Jones, Glen Johnson, Eric Harding, Montell Griffin, Reggie Johnson & Clinton Woods (Winning the Lightheavy Title Half a Hundred Times), ELABORATE on WHAT DeJesus Accomplished, Aside from ONE Win Over Duran???...

Go Ahead, Go to Boxrec...There's NATHAN There...

REED:hammert:

 

Is this how desperate we are in this thread, that we are bolstering Antonio Tarver for the sake of an argument.

Did you ever say who the best offensive fighter Roy ever fought was?

 

DeJesus sounds rather impressive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esteban_De_Jesús

cupey

 

"We"???...

REED Responded to a Post Saying Duran Only Lost to Guys that were "p4p HIGHER" than Anybody Roy Lost To...Sorry, but Esteban DeJesus ISN'T "p4p Higher" than Tarver, Except for in the Minds of those Clinging Lovingly to Duran's "Cajones de Piedras"...

U Acknowledged YOURSELF that there Wasn't Much of a Point when U Posed the Question of WHO was the Best Offensive Fighter Roy Ever Fought....Have U LOCATED a Point Finally???....



REED:hammert:

 

:::: Some boxing fans crack me up! I guess Ray would've benefited more in the eyes of some if he would've just stayed away from all that damn competition huh? Too many fans today are all about the 0 on their favorite fighters record, no wonder fighters avoid each other, they don't wanna lose their marketibility. I guess if level of comp isn't considered in determining who's better, then I vote for this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1KfvOYVi0

 

agREED...That Puerto Rican Lightweight Title SHITS On Anything Tarver Ever Did...



REED:hammert:

 

::

sad.

 

Well Tarver got his ass handed to him by Eric Harding. What the fuck did Harding ever do? He got whupped by Roy and whupped by Johnson. Whupped by Dawson. Whupped by Hopkins. So in 33 fights he got whupped 6 times. Sounds impressive.

 

Esteban held the WBA lightweight title for a while as I recall. I'm not gonna get into a Tarver - Dejesus debate but to make him look like a complete scrub with the Puero Rican title comment is just wrong!

 

He's tougher than most of Roy's competition.

Cupey

 

I have to disagree on this point. Jones is basically at the end of his career and there's nothing he can do now to put him close to SRL's stratosphere in terms of career.

So their respective careers are the measuring stick here. Jones looked awesome against average-good opposition but never had that truly defining fight. SRL beat 3 of the best boxers ever.

Hearns solved the SRL puzzle but Hearns is also a better boxer than anyone on Roy's resume. Really by not factoring in respective competition, you're penalising Leonard and it's a huge penalty. Jones' talent is undeniable but no matter how much his opposition is 'propped up', it pales in comparison to SRLs.

There's no shame in that, Leonard is one of the greatest ever to step into the boxing ring.

 

Incorrect. Both guys had less than 25 fights and both were fighting for their first title. (I could be wrong on this point). You seriously want to compare that with the same guys at the end of their careers?

Bernard is better now and has had a better career. Bernard also hasn't been sparked twice, nor has he made the move up to HW and back down like Jones.

Infact, aside from his first fight and much later in his career, Bernard has fought in the exact same division. Roy moved up weight classes. Bernard's best wins all come against guys who have moved up to face him (with the exception of Tarver.) Roy went up in weight to fight his.

So no, I don't agree with what your assertion and I doubt anyone would, including yourself.

We've strayed well off topic on this so if you'd honestly like to discuss this further, we can start a new thread. Up to you.

 

Besides beating Duran once and giving him bitter arguments in two other matches when Duran was the best 135 pounder ever, DeJesus beat Ray Lampkin, Guts Suzuki, Peppermint Frazer, Hector Medina, Edwin Viruet

He very likely would have been a dominant 135 pound champ if not for the misfortune of campaigning alongside the best champion ever at that weight

To me, DeJesus is a superior fighter to Tarver any way you slice it, by accomplishment or more importantly by his ring skill

 

You are Jones nuthugger if you believe:

Tarver was a great fighter who would have killed Bob Foster. He beat Roy so he must be great
A DQ is not a loss despite the fact that it goes into your record as an L
John Ruiz is p4p an all-time great or even a good heavyweight and that holding is not illegal.
Roberto Duran is overrated
Roy Jones is p4p in the top 10 greatest of all time
Prime for Prime he was better than Leonard - 18 of you fools fit into this cattegory
Roy Jones slipped and was not knocked down by Del Valle - I hear this one all the time
Roy Jones could have gotten up from his knockdown against Johnson but was to embarrassed to do so -- I credit Kenneth for this load of crap
Roy Jones has an iron chin

That's why there is no point in arguing with these fools. Waste of typing

Cupey

 

leonard against Floyd

Check out 4:50 of this video. Great stuff

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2S_YYhI-cA4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

 

There's NO WAY DeJesus Accomplished More, CDogg...

Tarver BEAT Roy Jones, Glen Johnson, Eric Harding, Montell Griffin, Reggie Johnson & Clinton Woods....That's MORE Impressive than the List of Names U just Whipped Out, on DeJesus' Behalf....Put the "Good Ol' Days" Glass of Cool-Aid DOWN, Dude....

Tarver was BETTER than DeJesus, CDogg...

REED::

 

Yeah, and I've used the same argument--when Jones was in his toughest fight to that point, he choked and hit a guy when he was clearly down-twice.

But the counter is that Montell went down due to Jones coming on. And there was a lot of fight left.

But flying to the record book to make a point is often one of the most disingenous arguments and one of the most flawed. God gave you eyes and a brain for a reason. And it's not to read a result in a record book and think that you are all set to win a subjective argument.

 

damn just watch the whole video. Fun stuff

Cupey

 

Harding didn't get whupped by Roy. You would know that if you watched the fight instead of looking at the record book.

 

I said Tarver. You would know that if you learned how to read

Cupey

 

and fyi I saw that fight. Harding got injured

Cupey

 

I read. Just not far enough.

 

which basically means you don't know how to read. You read from the beginning to the end and then you can open your mouth to comment punk :fightme:

 

It wasn't exactly Pullitzer material I was reading, though. I mean, you asked a question and then continued by discussing something else. ::

 

at Tarver being better than De Jesus, Tarver was 1-1 against Johnson who is no hall of famer, 1-1 against Harding who was a decent talent but no more, and the rest on his list are a bunch of old and well-past-prime (montell, reggie Johnson, even Woods who was never much anyhow) and Roy Jones. Which IMO was due to an awkward mesh of styles, Jones' weight loss, and the fact that Jones was in no way prepared to meet a guy who was a tricky fighter after fighting no one with a pulse in the previous 3 years.

 

Of course Reed will try to boost up Tarver. He thinks De Jesus is the janitor in his apartment building. :: just kidding

Cupey

 

DeJesus Actually Got KO'ed by Saoul Mamby, an AVERAGE Belt Holder @ Best who Made Pernell Whittaker Look like John "The Beast" Mugabi in the PUNCH Department....

Antonio Tarver > Esteban DeJesus



REED:hammert: