MOST OBVIOUS AND UPSETTING DUCK JOBS

Thread is pretty simple, just list some obvious cases where a fighter blatantly ducked another and then argue amongst yourselves if it is true or not or to what degree.


Off the top of my head:

Hamed - Ducked JMM. Twice. Went so far with it that he actually got the WBO to give him a pass when JMM became his mandatory. The WBO not surprisingly obliged.

Cintron - Ducked Clottey. Twice. The second time he put up some farce about wanting to fight in his hometown. I guess that's not too bad if you don't mind fighting off tv (HBO), and taking a huge paycut. Now he wonders why Angulo is getting a title shot over him.

Clottey - Ducked Paul Williams. Twice. The first time it was hard to know who ducked whom as both parties were claiming it was the other who would sign. However, Clottey had the oppurtunity to fight Williams before Martinez was penciled in and claimed the money was too low. Maybe he has a point, but really what are his other options?

Floyd - Ducked Shane and is still in the process of it. If you want to be the best in the division you would think fighting the recognized champion in the division would hold some kind of significance. Not for Floyd. The risk (losing his precious 0 ) outweighs the reward (becoming the recognized welter champ, quiteing talk that he won't fight the best, securing his legacy as an alltime great).

I could go on, but I'll save a few for you guys.

 

Fraud - Margarito, most dramatic, disgusting, defensive display I've ever seen from a fighter and his groupies alike.

:shit: and if groupies continue to have a problem with that, by all means step up and cry and validate my point more and more.

 

Who would have though that after all of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNp12msEWqU

Bowe would have thrown his belt into one of these?



MTF

 

Haye - Klitschko 1 & 2 was a decent duck job, Lennox Lewis made Bowe cry that's definitley true, but Lewis sure wasn't keen to get into the ring with a slippery irritating little southpaw like Byrd, and subsequently released one of his titles.

:crafty: A couple for the Brits to think about.

Mundine - Kessler 2 , ..and one for the Australians.

 

Kauki, put the glue bag away for a few minutes and look again at that little nugget of nonsense.

As for Haye, lets just remember our little sig bet...

MTF :crafty:

 

Indeed, and yes,.. do you think the Klitschko's could get away with pulling out of the Haye fights?... ... yeah right,... FLAAAAMMMEEEESSSSSSSSS, flames, flames,... KILL!! KILL...AARGGHHHH!!!

As for Lewis,.. it's true, he did not want to fight Byrd one iota, and it's a pity that allegedly he never fought a southpaw in his whole pro-career, I dont know if it was deliberate but a fight with Byrd would have helped to the contrary and yes, the oppurtunity did arise.

 

Bowe ducking Lewis

Dariusz running and hiding from Roy after RJJ stopped Virgil Hill.

Calzaghe vs anyone in their prime.

Hamed running away from his boxing career.

 

Hopkins actually ducked Calzaghe I'm afraid to say, the only noteable negotiations that took place between them back in 2002, it was our beloved Hopkins who broke it off.

 

Lewis has one of the best HW resume's ever. The fact that he didn't waste his time fighting Chris Byrd doesn't affect any sensible person's opinion of LL one iota.

MTF

 

Correct. Hopkins agreed to take 1.5 million for ther fight then, the day after a pre-contract agreement was signed, he doubled his demands.

Then when Hopkins finally got around to fight Joe, he tried to get him DQ'd and cried like a bitch.

MTF

 

Yea to be fair to Calzaghe, and I do give him alot of shit for not fighting the best in their prime, you can't blame him for the Hopkins fight, Bernard was the one being unreasonable there.

 

I don't consider Lewis not fighting Byrd a duckage. Yeah he avoided him, but it wasn't due to fear. Just like with Ruiz, Lewis didn't see Byrd as a challenge and at that time he was only looking to make the most appealing and significant matchups at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he go on to fight Vitali instead?

True or not I applaud a guy for ducking a mandatory if he instead takes on a tougher fight. Lewis beating Byrd was about as foregone a conclusion as Floyd beating JMM. If anything Lewis probably would have gotten criticized for taking that fight.

 

Who did Calzaghe duck at 168? Who are all of these 'prime' fighters that Calzaghe ducked?

The only one who can be reasonably listed in Glen Johnson. Calzaghe should have fought him and didn't, citing hand injuries.

RJJ was fighting at 175 by the time Calzaghe was champion at 168. In fact, by the time Calzaghe had become even vaguley relevant (circa 2002-03), RJJ was preparing to fight at HW.

Hopkins screwed Calzaghe at the negotiating table.

Who else was there?

MTF :dunno:

 

Yes he does, and infact, I rate Lewis as the greatest heavyweight of all-time, I dont think any pro-fighter in history, beats him at his best, but he didn't fight a southpaw, even in the early stages of his career, that is very unusual, it's this reason that helps raise an eyebrow about avoiding Byrd, plus the fact that despite what people say about him, in his prime, Byrd was a slippery, energetic little counter-punching nightmare for any big guy to fight, he would have annoyed Lewis big-time, I wish he'd have fought him.

 

I'm with you on the Hopkins scenario bro, Calzaghe gets too much stick for Bernard being a bit of a cunt at the negotiating table.

However, you mention he only "became relevant" at around 2002-03, this is true, but he could have made himself relevant a whole lot eariler if he had fought in America and made a name for himself there, if he had called out Roy publicly, maybe beat some of the guys Roy beat but more impressively for example. It worked for Hatton, it got him the fight with Floyd, but Calzaghe didn't exactly go out and chase it. The thing is, that's what pisses me off about Calzaghe, because I don't think he would have been a Hatton, I think he would have acquitted himself exceptionally well against the guys at the top level back then, but we will never know because he didn't take the risk.

 

From memory, he relinquished his belt, and made a date with Kirk Johnson, when Johnson pulled out he fought Vitali, that's to be commended,.. but I wish he'd have tested himself against a southpaw for the first time in his career instead of scheduling a fight with Johnson, Byrd was a slippery opponent, I believe he didn't like Byrd's energetic palm & prod point scoring style, especially at that time in his career when he was acting like a big-wig cunt, trying to rort more money out of a Tyson rematch.

 

Calzaghe won his WBO bauble in 1997 at a time when the WBO title was even less respected than it is nowadays (which is saying a lot) and as a fairly green, late replacement for Steve Collins.

In the next two years, he fought Robin Reid, Ritchie Woodhall and David Starie. Reid and Woodhall were both very decent fighters (Reid came close to beating Joe than anyone ever did in fact) and Starie, despite being largely unknown outside the UK, was a multiple Commonwealth title holder and who holds a comfortable points win over Clinton Woods. Another good fighter.

At this point, Calzaghe started to talk about fighting Johnson. That fight was agreed twice and Calzaghe pulled out twice, both times citing hand injuries. Johnson, meanwhile, went on to lose to Sven Ottke (close).

Because of these pull-outs, Calzaghe had only five fights between Jan 2001 and June 2003.

Now, depending upon your point of view, Calzaghe either bottled 'Coffe and started beating bums (and there are some REAL bums at this point) or he was legitimately injured and was just keeping busy by fighting some cans. I personally favour the former, but can understand why people argue the latter.

In 2003 he fought Mitchell, three months after he dropped a controversial split decision to (surprise surprise) Ottke. Joe stopped him in two at a time when Byron was considered a very dangerous fighter.

Then Hopkins agreed to fight Joe, only to change his mind the next day and demand a ton of extra money. RJJ, meanwhile, was preparing to fight Ruiz and was 12 months away from being iced by Tarver and Johnson.

Calzaghe fought some more cans, having been rebuffed by Hopkins and after RJJ seemed to have been retired, before fighting Lacy, Bika, Kessler and then finally Hopkins.

The facts are that:

Calzaghe won a lightly regarded title early in his career and made some good quality defences early doors

Calzaghe should then have fought Johnson but didn't. That is a fair criticism.

He should then have fought Hopkins, but Hopkins pulled out and left oe high and dry

By this time RJJ became a viable option, BUT he had been KTFO twice.

Then he fought the best American they could throw at him and who was willing to fight him and he KO-ed him in two.

No-one was willing to fight Joe for a year or two at this point

The nhe fought the best American they could throw at him and he ruined him by schooling

Then beat an awkward, tough SOB who is still arguably top-five at 168

Comprehensively beat the consensus no.1 or no.2 SMW in the world

And the best LHW in the world, regardless of his age.

Who else should he have fought?

MTF :dunno:

 

There was a bunch of guys he didn't fight during the years at 168, particularly between 2000-2006, who were mostly better than some of the fodder he did face, these include Thomas Tate, Glen Johnson, Mads Larsen, Sven Ottke (obviously both a fault here, but neither pushed that fight which should have happened), Silvio Branco, a rematch with Robin Reid....its wasn't a murderer's row but they guys he did face were mostly poor. The one fight which was trumpeted between 2000-2006 was the Byron Mitchell fight and he only took him on after he had laready lost the unification fight with Ottke. Rather than ring cowardice, I would mostly put it down to greed on his and Warren's part, and reluctance to out himself at a disadvantage in terms of opposition, home turf etc.

 

I know what you're saying dude, and I don't think he did duck anyone at SMW, in fact I rate the Reid and Starie wins, they were very good fighters at the time. Ottke just straight up didn't want to fight Joe and I think that fight would have been a walk in the park. I've also said on numerous occasions, for all the people who like to talk shit about Calzaghes super middleweight reign, saying it was full of bums, won't be ready to chuck the same shit at Hopkins, who's 20 odd defences aren't exactly jam-packed with stellar opposition either.

That's not my point though, do you not think that during some of the times when he was fighting the McIntyres or Mkrtchyans he could have maybe fought in America at least once? Or maybe moved up and fought some of RJJs opponents and try to make a name for himself? He could have fought an old RJJ opponent, beat him quicker and then directly call Roy out (as I said, it worked for Hatton). Of course that might have meant sacrificing his WBO belt but I'm pretty sure he would have got alot more respect for doing so. Maybe he could have even chased Michalczewski, that would have put him out there for sure. At the end of the day, EVERYONE knew that RJJ was the golden goose at that time, and maybe if Calzaghe had dropped the WBO belt and tried to actually make the fight happen he would have got it. He didn't take the risk though. You need to put yourself into the publics conciousness and he didn't do that, for people to clamour for a fight they need to know who you are.

 

Hopkins ducking Roy Jones. It's embarrassing at this point. Dude wants no part of Roy.

Roy ducking Tarver. Having him fight Eric Harding in an eliminator and the IBF actually allowing that to happen was a disgrace. Tarver was chasing Roy in the press conferences calling him out. Now we know why Roy didn't want any.

Bowe ducking Lewis was pretty sad.

Mayweather ducking anybody with a pulse.

Jaws ducking cupey after he called him out :: just kidding

 

This is a subject where we never know the truths since all sides twist the tor to their favor and it is a matter of subjective liking and disliking whose story you want to buy. Jones vs Dariusz is a good example: both blame the other part, neither seriously wanted the fight.

Lewis-Bowe is about the only one that seems like sure case because Bowe went public with it himself

 

Bowe/Lewis is number one by a mile. It was the most cowardly move in history. The truth is Bowe was very overrated and Lewis would have blown him out like he did in the olympics whenBowe quit(got dq'd on purpose)

Roy/DM -Roy's whole act of not wanting to travel was crap. He will go to Australia to fight a stiff like Danny Green but his pussy dried up at the mention of fighting the actual, true and lineal light heavy weight champion.


Roy/Jirov-ranks with one of the most cowardly moves in history. Roy low ballede Jirov as Roy always did quality opposition and Jirov accepted then Roy said no and ducked the hell out of him.

 

Bowe was TKOd, not DQd

 

Here is a random one, but one of the most blatant I had ever seen.

Israel "Pito" Cardona was at one time ranked the #1 lightweight contender for Shane Mosley’s title (maybe the WBC?) The organization basically mandated that Mosley fight his #1 contender, and of course Mosley said sure – name the place and time. Cardona then refused to take the fight! The #1 contender refused to fight the champion!

 

Not really, he literally kept ducking and the ref stopped it. I thought that was dq.

 

No, please go watch the tape from youtube. Bowe got a warning for headbutt in the first and he ref did caution him from ducking too low in the second but the stoppage was because of punches. Lewis drove him to the ropes early in the second to produce one count and a little later he wobbled Bower with a right and the ref stepped in

 

My point is this: who, really, fights EVERYONE? Even someone like Lennox Lewis, who by and large fought everyone reasonable, gets accused of 'avoiding' guys like Chris Byrd and John Ruiz.

There are always some reasonable guys a top fighter doesn't get round to fighting. That's the nature of the sport nowadays. You can add people like Mads Larsen and Thomas Tate to that list, I guy. Doesn't mean Joe 'ducked' them, though.

I'll give you the Reid rematch, though. That should have happened because a lot of decent judges thought that Reid nicked it. That fight was close enough to warrent a rematch.

Agreed on werren, though. His protective tactics are a disgrace.

MTF

 

No it wasn't. Bowe wasn't hurt; he was terrified.

 

Leave it to the Shane groupie to make up bs.

 

Roy ducked Jirov for sure but DM wanted no part of Rj at all.