Is it time to call Pacquiao the GOAT?

If Pacquiao retires tomorrow, would he go down as the GOAT?

I think so.

 

No

 

No.

It is time to acknowledge that he falls in the top 20 of all time for sure. Possibly top 10.

 

no...but he is top 15-20 already...he beat Mosley/Mayweather he will get in closer to the GOAT

 

No, but he's up there.

Also, admit that Cotto is a tough guy.

 

Pacquiao has a Duran-like Resume, except he isn't just fighting guys bigger than him, he's destroying them. There is nobody who has his body of work, and he's otherworldly in skills.

Top 20?...cmon now.

 

Top 20 all time is a HUGE compliment. Boxing has seen some phenomenal athletes in it's time.

I'd personally put him just outside the top 10 probably but as I haven't sat down and made a list, I'm unsure as to where he lands.

 

HE IS RIGHT UP THERE.

 

Cotto doesn't quit but he sure gives up when he recognises that he can't win. Hes no where near as tough as Morales or JMM imo.

 

forget that he's a diaperweight guy annihilating guys way bigger than him.

forget that he's gotten better as he's moved up in weight.

Barrera 2x, Morales 2x, Marquez 1.5 times, Hatton, DLH, Cotto, all these guys at their weight classes, and with the exception of the second Marquez fight, he's outclassed all these guys.

Thats not even including the Larios-level guys on his resume.

Its not just that he's got those names, its that he's dominated them and been taking the fight to their doorstep

 

Agreed.

It would be very difficult to call him the greatest of all time.

However if you take the usual names such as Robinson, Leonard, Duran, Chavez, Armstrong, Whitaker etc. i wouldn't say he's far off from that company.

 

He's up there but he has to beat a great American fighter first before he gets in the top 10. Oscar doesn't count. Basically if he beats Mayweather he'll be in the top 10 all time IMO.

 

I don't think that's fair to Pacquiao. Very few Americans can get below 160 pounds.

 

Mayweather can and so can Mosely, and Berto ::

 

He's already in the same tier as Chavez and Whitaker, if not greater (I think he already is). And I've little doubt he'll be in SRL, Duran and Robinson's company (if he isn't already) by the time his career his over.

 

If I may I will also like to add that in addition to being a great fighter, he is also a great gentleman.

I was very critical of him in the past five or six years, but through working with a great trainer in Roach, he has shored up and stabilized many offensive and defensive flaws he at one time had.

He didn't know me from Adam, but when I spoke with Freddy when he was in Houston, Manny consented to speak with me (after Oscar had blown the internet media off for interviews) and was extremely nice to me and I found him to be very intelligent.

He would not commit to answering my question that if he beat Oscar, would he rate himself the best Asian fighter ever over Elorde, Kingpetch, Harada, Gushiken, and Ohba..but instead told me that they were great fighters and does not like to compare himself to anyone else, he just wants to be the best he can be.

I was keeping my right hand up to block that big left of his in the event that he snapped when I VERY politely noted that perhaps he may throw too much into his left hand looking to take the other guy out and fall out of his boxing stance, but he looked me dead in the eyes and told me not to expect that again, and we have not see that anymore.


He is a great man, a great fighter, a slam dunk first ballot hall of famer, and we need to just enjoy the ride while we can.

Karl

 

He's got a powerful heart, his physical talent is as good as anybody ever, and as it happens his heart doesn't match the size of his frame and body, it was a mistake, only in hindsight perhaps, to begin his career so low in weight, not only because he wasn't as durable, but he didn't have enough bulk to take full advantage of the core engine inside of him.

I will say this though, no more catchweights, Manny is ripped weighing in at 144, other welterweights should be able to weigh in at the welterweight limit.

 

For a modern fighter it is impossible to crack top 20, but if Pac retires tomorrow and we wait twenty years, then he will be top 5. The all-time rankings of boxing traditionalists are beyond ridiculous

 

This post is the only reason I can't be a huge Pac fan. People like this ruin it for me. I'm scared I'm going to sound just as retarded. Just like the Titosites did when Tito was kicking ass. It's sad really.

1. He's not a diaperweight guy. He weighed alot less as a teenager, got it? You act like tonight he was 16 yrs old and 108 pounds.:: He has filled into a 140lber nicely.



2. You said he dominated all those names. Can you tell me when he dominated Marquez please? Cotto and MAB. That's where he gets "accomplished domination." If you need to even bring up those other names, you GOAT argument is already over.

3. "Taking fights to their doorsteps" isn't mandating catchweights.:nono:

With that said, some will say I'm a Pac hater, not true. Pac makes it almost impossible to hate him. If you love boxing, you really like Manny.

He will fight who the public wants him to, willing to take risks and is great for boxing.

But, lets chill out and look at things without fanboy eyes. Is he a top 20 fighter ever? Probably. The best fighter ever? We don't even know if he's the best fighter, right now!!!!

 

Good point because Morales would never ever quit against Pacman.

 

exactly

 

Anything who thinks he is not top 10 all time P4P is insane.

Take a look at the records of people in the top 10 or top 20 that you consider should be ranked higher than Manny.

Compare their record with Manny's record, compare their overall talent and skill, compare the amount of weight divisions they've dominated, fighting bigger men, then come back and tell me that yes 10 or more rank higher than Manny.

You won't be able to, because the fact is, there aren't 10 people you could do that with.

 

Manny is unquestionably top-ten now IMHO. As stated already by UGO, in twenty years or so time people will look back at what he is doing in near disbelief...

MTF

 

If he obliterates Floyd then he is the best

Incredible fighter, still gobsmacked by that performance

 

His domination of Cotto only enhances the legacy of Ricky Hatton!!! :fightme:














::

 

I think he's top 10 for sure. What he has done in this sport, through the weights, is crazy. If he were to beat Mayweather.....he could break the top 3.

 

Wow, I'm very lucky to be living in this golden age of boxing. In the last 5-6 years alone Roy Jones Jr., Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pac have all been declared the GOAT. Go back another 10+ years and you can throw Mike Tyson on that list.

I'm so glad boxing isn't marginalized any more and has a much larger talent pool to draw from then those fags who fought from the 1930's and into the 1980's.

Oh, I'm also impressed Champions today only fight once or twice a year at the most. Another sign of their obvious greatness. :bears:

It's only those stupid traditionalist's that demand champions to fight top level opposition on a regular basis and reserve the right to judge their greatness years later based on the context of their times and the opposition they fought. :nono:

 

Who has declared Mayweather or Tyson GOAT? Jones must be up there if we compare the success against your own timers - ranked career-wise nobody has him #1 and you know that.

But please, name me another sport where in the last twenty years nobody has undisputably broken to top-20 in the history of the sport. Is there another sport like this?

This is exactly what I am talking about. If someone even dares to suggest that a modern guy could rank to the company of past legends, then I am an old-time hater and call them fags. Way to go.

You do understand that the sport has changed a great deal in that sense. They don't make 20+ fights for any world class fighter these days even if someone wanted to have them. That is why it is silly to compare records directly. It would be as stupid as to claim that PBF is better than Harry Greb and Willie Pep because PBF has never lost unlike them.

This is exactly what should happen. And it should be remembered that history is made all the time, it is not just in the past

 

:bears:

 

Great points