How huge is Erik Morales' win over Manny now?

Looking back at that fight, its hard to believe that Erik clearly beat this monster at his own game and even gave the 12th to him.

There were rounds where Erik gave him a boxing lesson and battered him around the ring.

 

Looking back to that, it becomes more and more obvious that Manny was still a developing talent in that fight. He didn't have nearly the versatility he has now and his body was not fully developed either. In two other fights Manny beat Morales up bad, and Manny is miles above him however you want to look it

 

It would have sure helped him to weigh in a ripped 144lbs on the scales before thier fight aswell.

 

I'm a huge Morales fan, I've loved Erik since I first saw him fight.

And the win is excellent, no doubt, BUT, Manny is significantly better, much better now than he was then.

He has improved year in, year out, to the polished fighting machine that he is now.

Just like Duran was much better in the late 70's than he was in the early 70's.

 

Manny improved and won two out of three BUT it's still a big win in Morales' career. No one can deny that.

 

IMO Morales is better than all the guys Pac has recently blown out and he got worse after the first fight.

How much has Pac really improved, he didn't really look better against JMM in the second compared with the first, IMO Pac won the first fight and lost the second with JMM.

 

You'd have to be off your nut to think he hasn't improved.

He is far more skilled and varied, with much better defense, better ring generalship, and far more of a thinker in the ring than the Morales era Pacman.

I agree Pacman won the first JMM fight, and the second could have gone either way.

But Marquez just seems to have the Pacman anti Venom, for whatever reason his style fares very well against Pacquiao's.

Morales was on the decline, but Pacman was clearly getting better, too, it was obvious even by the third fight Pacman was better and more polished than the first Erik fight.

And the difference between that Pacman and the Pacman now is huge, you are seemingly the only one who can't see the difference.

 

If he had improved so much he would have done better against Marquez in the rematch. I think he is just smarter now imo and can follow gameplans. Before he used to just straight up kill people from the get go.

 

Not to take away from Pac's win in the third fight but Erik had outgrown 130 a long time before that and it was a huge mistake to take any fight in that weight class. He looked like a starving Ethiopian at that weigh in.

 

Manny didn't have the counter-punching then, what he has now. That's a big difference.

The win is always gonna look great on Morales' record, and so it should. Manny may have improved since, but Eric still beat a very, very good fighter that night.

 

Not necessarily, like I said, for some reason Marquez just matches up very well with Manny.

I bet even now at 140 or 147 Gay Marquez would give Pacman a better fight than Cotto did.

Seriously, it's obvious how much he has improved.

In the Morales/Barrera era, he was a somewhat basic 1-2 fighter, very reliant on the straight left, not very good defense, not much of a thinker in the ring. He won fights with insane speed and power and ferocity.

He is now a far more complete fighting machine. He thinks more, he moves better, he counters better, his defense and head movement is much better, he has a right hook, uppercuts, bodyshots.

He is vastly improved.

 

Oh we can all see THAT.

 

I love Erik Morales, but he barely beat Pacquiao in the first fight and there were a lot of factors going against Pac for that fight:

- Pacquiao's FIRST fight at 130
- he was having mangerial problems with Murad Muhammad and it was distracting him
- he got contractually swindled to wear pillow gloves (Winning instead of Reyes) because Murad is simply not as skilled a negotiator as Arum

However, fight #2 and #3 proved who the better fighter really was. Erik basically got beat out of the sport.

 

I wouldn't say that Morales "barely" beat Pacquaio. It was a good fight, but there was no doubt that Morales was the winner.

 

pacquiao clearly was badly affected by a headbutt cut early on and they had gloves he did not want.

he offered no excuses after and said cleto reyes gloves in the rematch ill KO him...which he did...twice.

still was a great win for morales, but he didnt beat this pacquiao...not by a long shot.

 

Exactly. Pacman is better. It is only relevant when people compare the vastly superior Morales to Barrera who was inferior except head to head.

 

Pacquiao didn´t beat the best Morales either.

 

You can't really even compared the Manny Pacquiao of four-five years ago to the one today.

 

A 2 point win is pretty close, added to the fact that Erik Morales was rocked badly in the 12th round.

Yeah Erik won, good win, but there were a lot of factors going against Pacquiao going into the bout, the least of which he was fighting at 130 for the first time in his career.

Once Pacquiao threw out Murad, and had Reyes gloves, Erik was done x2.

 

Morales beating Pacquiao in the first fight was impressive, because Morales did it without any judging controversy. That said, it was no more than a 7-5 fight. Erik didn't do it with gas left in the tank. He was a horribly beaten man by the end of those 12 rounds.

 

That means nothing. Manny is incredible at adapting to new weight classes.

Lest we not forget, Oscar was his first fight at 140+ too, and he destroyed him.

It was a great win for Morales, I seem to recall scoring it 8-4 to Morales.

But, ultimately, you'd have to be a fool to think that was the same Manny as today. This version of Manny is clearly superior, significantly so.

 

Throw in a brutal loss to Raheem and Pac not letting Erick fight at a catchweight.

 

brutal loss to raheem ???? That fight was far from brutal ( and I don,t care that Raheem rocked Morales early )

 

it appears to me that Pacquiao is also having greater success in higher weight classes due to disparity in skill level.

guys like morales and marquez were much more difficult for pacquiao to handle because they could very well match him in speed.

i'm really surprised that pacquiao was able to carry his power up to 140 and above, but it's really his speed that enables him to have success against these much bigger guys.

i would've bet on mayweather to beat pacquiao prior to this cotto fight, but now, i'm not so certain. it wouldn't surprise me a bit if pacquiao swarms the less active mayweather and wins on points.

 

:atu:

 

OK switch brutal to frustrating and humiliating loss to Raheem. Everytime Erik fought Pac he was coming off of at least 1 loss. He wasn't exactly at the highest point of his career when he lost twice to Pac.

 

If Pacquioa was as heavy as he is now, retaining the same speed plus a shitload more power, and looking better than ever, Morales would never have beaten him at all, I think with his strong, strong, ticker, Manny should have jumped up in weight alot earlier.

 

Agreed, though change skill level to speed. Marquez and Morales could match Pac's speed and counter him effectively, but against these bigger guys his advantage is enormous. His punch and especially chin seem to hold up too, so actually he seems to be better at 140+ than in his "real" division. Also Manny has learned since his days in feathers, his footwork has improved great deal as has his strategies

 

I second that :atu:. But it did prove that Morales was shot at that point.

Also, Morales GAVE Pacquiao the last round almost as a gift by fighting southpaw to embarrass him some more. Morales beat him easy the first fight. Nothing wrong with losing. Morales was a great fighter. Duran lost to Leonard and was laid out by Hearns. What's the big deal. Morales beat him. End of story. Pacquiao is still a great fighter.

Cupey

 

No fighter on this planet is ever going to fight the best fighters, continously, in multiple divisions and not lose. Everyone has a bad day, and faces someone who has a great day, no matter what.