Is it time to call Pacquiao the GOAT?

I disagree with some of this but you argue your points well.

I smell another article in the making. ray:

 

Not when you're 45 years old you mook.

The truth is, the 30's Duran didn't give a fuck. Most of the time he would turn up and not give a shit, just going through the motions. He looked undertrained and disinterested.

Sometimes it was good enough to get the W, sometimes not, which led him to lose to people he really shouldn't have.

Then every now and then he would turn up like old Duran, and want to fight, like against Moore.

Prime Duran lost once, which he avenged twice.

Do you hold the Joppy loss against him too? ::

Do you think Robinson sucks too? Afterall he has more losses than Duran.

 

I never said it's all about the losses. I said losses matter.

I very much like the point about comparing their ages because I agree that it could be relevant if Pacquiao has a similar slide into mediocrity like Duran had. If this happens, I agree that Pacquiao's standing could be affected. However, at this same age, Pacquiao's resume and accomplishments obliterate Duran's. Duran's resume only gains strength as he ages and loses.

Of course, your points about Pacq's losses are quite weak. The initial loss was a legit loss to a scrub, the 2nd loss was legit, but is probably mitigated by Pacquiao blaming it on weight loss and then returning 3 weight classes higher. The 3rd loss is particularly disingenuous because most people had Morales beating Barrera in the rematch and his slide after Pacquiao isn't relevant.

Do YOU really believe the loss to Morales is tainted by Morales's 'loss' coming into it and his losses following it?

 

Take Duran's pecker out of your mouth, apologist. These are the same tired arguments Toney's supporters use--losses only occur when he is unmotiviated, so only count wins and losses to great fighters to evaluate greatness. It's very convenient to write off losses of someone you want to elevate by dismissing them to lack of preparation.

I certainly hold his losses prior to Leonard 3 against him. Leonard 3 and Lawlor I want to hold against him, but I can see why not to. After that, no. Of course he has no wins after that point that really elevate him, either.

 

:cheer:I'll do it. Can I criticize levitation as a training technique, or is that going too far?

 

::

You'd probably slide just about anything past me at this point. I'd be a crappy editor with my ADD.

Maybe we need to think about putting a disclaimer in all our articles. "The content of this article is not necessarily the opinion of FightBeat.com or it's "editors"."

 

Robinson has 19 losses, do you also rank Pacquiao higher than him?

 

So was Cotto. What's your point?

Cupey

 

UGO IS RIGHT ON ON THIS ISSUE. If you are not impressed with what Manny has already accomplished you lack perspective. He is simply amazing. His career is better than Manny people who some of you nutlickers suck off already. Manny has already had a better career than the Crackhead Whitaker. Better than Chavez, better than Roy Jones Junior, better than Floyd.

 

I don't know where to rank Robinson since I haven't seen the vast majority of his fights. His boxrec record isn't as impressive as his historical rating, I will say that.

 

Well, Floyd Mayweather has a better resume. He's not only beaten better opponents than Manny, he's done it in 15 fewer fights and he's undefeated.

 

::::

He lost to Jose Luis Castillo. He also lost to Zab Judah by DQ.

 

No he didn't. He "moved" up to beat a prime Jose Luis Castillo twice.

You must be thinking of the time when Manny, behind on the cards, got manhandled by Agapito Sanchez and was left crying on the floor on a Floyd undercard. ::

 

He should have been DQ'd and he really did lose to Castillo who sucked always.

Anyway, how do you reason the Floyd has had a better career?Manny has fought better opp and has beaten people way more decisively. Plus for Floyd is that he has officially no losses even though that is not true to anyone who can score a fight.

 

But Manny hasn't fought better opposition. People keep saying that, but it's not true.

List all the top guys Manny fought and all the top guys Floyd fought, and Floyd fought better opposition.

How can Manny have a better resume if Floyd beat better guys and hasn't lost?

 

Castillo and Corrales are not better than Cotto, or Morales or Barrera. Castillo was a very average fighter. Castillo didn't even beat lil stevie. You are ridiculous. They have a bunch of wins in common and Pac beat them all clearly better except for Marquez and I think Pac dominated Marquez the first time but was robbed. He beat Marquez by 5 points. Floyd beat a worse version and a blown up version better, good point.

 

Because Manny has fought better fighters, and destroyed Floyd's 2 best wins ::

You must be a proper Manny hater to think Floyd has a better resume, and even reference the agapito sanchez fight.

Floyd is teh better because Manny got fouled by sanchez and also he lost at teh flyweights!

 

Elite Opponents:
Miguel Angel Cotto
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Juan Manuel Marquez x1.5
Marco Antonio Barrera x2
Erik Morales x2

Top Tier:
Lehlohonolo Ledwaba
Chatchai Sasakul
David Diaz
Jorge Solis
Oscar Larios
Hector Velazquez
Emmanuel Lucero
Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym
Jorge Eliecer Julio
Nedal Hussein

ray:

 

It doesn't matter if you've seen him fight or not, he has 19 losses so he can't be as good as Pacquiao right?

He's also not as good as Marciano, because Marciano has 0 losses.

 

You keep trying to rewrite history in an attempt to make a point. I could argue Andrew Golota was awesome, too, if I changed the verdicts in the Byrd, Ruiz, Grant and Bowe fights. :atu:


Diego Corrales was an undefeated monster at 130. Genaro Hernandez was a dominant long-reigning champ at 130. Floyd destroyed them both. Barrera and Morales were NOT better 130 pounders than Corrales and Hernandez.

After seeing them in the ring, it's clear Juan Manuel Marquez would never have beaten Floyd ever. Manny has yet to convincingly beat Marquez in two attempts.

Jose Luis Castillo was the world champ at 135. Floyd beat him twice. Manny beat David Diaz ... not even close.

Floyd beat Hatton when he was undefeated. He also beat 140-pound champs Corley, Mitchell and Gatti (when he was fighting his best). Manny beat Hatton after Floyd, and nobody else at the weight.

Floyd moved up to beat Oscar at 154, when De La Hoya was coming off one of the biggest knockouts of his career over Mayorga for his title. Manny beat Oscar after Floyd, and negotiated to have Oscar come down and weigh 147 -- which he hadn't weighed in seven or eight years.

Floyd also beat Angel Manfredy at 130 when Manfredy was coming off an impressive knockout of Gatti. And he stopped future lightweight champ Jesus Chavez. And he beat reigning world welterweight champ Baldomir. And he beat former world welterweight champ Judah. Those guys are all far better than Medgoen Singsurat and Rustico Torrecampo and everyone else who beat up Pacquiao.

 

::::You are a joke. Manfredy::::Thanks, I didn't know you were a troll.

 

Manfredy KO1 Rustico Torrecampo

 

That's some great boxrec work there.

 

I've seen those fights. Have you? They're on Manny Pacquiao's career dvd.

 

Pacquiao pretty clearly took dives both times he was stopped.

 

::Just like Hatton did.

 

You are dumb.

 

::

 

I've seen the Singsurat fight. Other than quick feet it doesn't resemble Manny Pacquiao today at all. What do some losses over 10 years ago at flyweight have to do with anything anyway?

 

A win over Floyd would have to put him in the top 3 of all time.

However if Floyd were to win, even if he stopped Manny, Floyd wouldn't be top 5 of all time.