Is it time to call Pacquiao the GOAT?

Floyd was Pretty Much a COMPLETE Fighter from the Beginning of his Pro Career Though...Pacquiao has had More ROOM for Improvement...



REED:hammert:

 

yea, i'm not a pac fan. in fact, i root for him to lose everytime he steps in the ring.

pac has improved, but floyd was always better. we'll find out who's better now when they fight.

i admitted that pac's an all time great when he smoked hatton in 2. his victory this past weekend puts him in a the upper echelons for sure. how's that for objectivity?

that doesn't mean that he's better than floyd. name one guy in pac's resume that floyd wouldn't beat?

guys that floyd beat would possibly beat pac when pac was in lower weight classes. at the very least, it's arguable. but no way in hell would morales have been remotely competitive w/ floyd.

 

He is top 20 for me.

Winning titles in 4 of the original 8 weight divisions.

 

David Diaz - Champ whose only loss at the time was a controversial stoppage in a fight he was winning at a higher weight class. Knocked out Santa Cruz who beat Caysmayor. Solid champ.

Jorge Solis - Undefeated at the time. 31-0.

Oscar Larios - One of the best featherweights of the 2000s.

Hector Velazquez - Yeah he hasn't been the elite of the elite, but people forget that Hector gave Israel Vasquez one of his toughest fights in his career forcing a split decision. Pacquiao basically used this guy as a dish rag to wipe his dick off.

Emmanuel Lucero - Undefeated at the time. 21-0

Jorge Eliecer Julio - Former Batamweight champion of the world. Gave a prime Junior Jones a big scare and nearly lifted his title when Junior Jones was 30-0.

These guys weren't bums.

 

Now that I think about it.I agree

 

The following was posted on another thread by the OP. He believes that Manny is the GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME!!:notallthere:

Yet he doubts Manny is the best fighter right now??????

I will wait to see the weightclass it gets made at. I don't buy Pac being a WW, I think if the fight is at 140 its a total toss up. At 147 I'd favor Floyd.- Jaws


This thread is now pronounced..dead.:shit:

 

More examples why old-timers and modern guys just can not be compared. Guys like Henry Armstrong lost several fights before becoming champions, yet they are (rightly) hailed among the best ever. However, Pacquiao gets dissed, because "you have to consider his whole career".

The sport has changed. One fight at the top level means more now than it used to do, in flyweight it does not have the same impact (since nobody pays them anyway). We can not compare fighters and fights from different eras that directly.

 

In terms of the fundamentals, I would agree...but Floyd's power has improved and his hand problems appear to be a thing of the past.

It's interesting, Pac has improved, but he's likely going to lose 10 rounds out of 12 against Floyd. However Pac has moved up 7-9 weight divisions. Even if Floyd beats him, who looks better in terms of overall accomplishment?

 

Dude, David Diaz got his ass handed to him by a completely shot Morales. He barely got the win and many people think Morales won. Bad example.

Cupey

 

Good call on PBF's resume Dubble. PBF's resume gets glossed over while Pac's gets praised. If Pac fought at 135 against Corrales or Castillo in their primes, we wouldn't be having this converstation.

The fight needs to be made regardless and if PBF wins decisively, there can be no denying his greatness. I mean he just shut out number 2 P4P in the world.

 

Yeah they were. Floyd's Baldomir win is bigger than any of them.

 

Seriously though Joony, WHY do you dislike Pacman?

I just don't understand. Obviously I'm a big Pacman fan, but out of all the fighters, he seems to be the LEAST dislikeable of them all.

Incredible talent, fights anyone, is a nice guy, is not arrogant or annoying, his fights are almost always exciting etc etc.

He is the shining star in boxing right now. Seriously, what's not to like?

Incidentally, prime Morales would have been competitive with Floyd at 130. Are you forgetting that even Jesus Chavez was somewhat competitive with Floyd, and Castillo arguably beat him?

Prime Morales was a much better fighter than Castillo, albeit a little more wild and careless.

 

Sure, that's a big part of it.

Floyd was pretty polished early on, in fact he's hardly changed. He's a bit more skilled and crafty, but slower.

Pacman on the other hand, was a much rawer talent, who's become far more polished year in, year out.

 

You can't dislike Pacquiao. He's a great fighter who's doing what Leonard did at the end of his career. He's fighting guys that are hand picked. Diaz. a spent DLH, and a spend Morales. Pretty boy fought some tough guys like Corrales and Baldomir. I give Floyd the edge here, although I don't like him very much and he's ducking Mosley big time.

Cupey

 

i dunno about all this

he was heavily favoured to beat Cotto, and then once he did what he was expected to do everyone is amazed :notallthere:


the fact that DLH and Cotto fights were at bullshit catchweights taints those wins

 

Would you have picked Duran to beat Marvin Hagler?

 

Bold words from a man who said, "Pacquiao is going to get his face kicked in. He'll have some success early as Cotto starts to adjust to his speed. But once Cotto catches up and Pacquiao slips you are going to hear the cries of the Filipinos as their hero falls to the ground.

TIMBER! Cotto via KO"


Could that have been any more wrong?::


How about Texmex's prediction for the fight?..., "Cotto wins ko 4"::

Good to see you guys all chiming in after the fact to take credit away from Manny.

 

Morales X3
Marquez x2 (at an appropriate weight)
Barrera x2
Hatton (at prime weight)
Cotto
DLH (old)

vs
Corrales
Castillo
Hatton (above peak weight)
Marquez (ridiculously above peak weight)
DLH (old)

Pac has clearly fought better guys.

 

It's not hard to understand that "losses matter" isn't the same thing as "losses are determinative." I've never said or implied the latter, at least not in general terms.

In the context of looking at Duran or Pacquiao's ranking, however, then losses probably are the determinative factor in mY mind, at least. However, I conceded the age comparison is a good counter, at least for now. We'll have to see how that plays out. But if Pacq retires tomorrow, I rate him higher than Duran.

 

Come on bro. If PBF had fought and beaten MAB or Morales, you'd look at it like he fought smaller guys. You forgot to add JMM on PBF's list too, but I just wrote the reason why.

 

:notallthere:

 

REED NEVER Called them "Bums"...But they Damn Sure WEREN'T "Top Tier" Either....



REED:nono:

 

:atu:

Man, some people just don't know boxing.

 

Exactly. These guys were as bad as Bryant Brannon, Vinny Pazienza, Glen Kelly, Derrick Harmon, and the other bums that Jones fought. So if we are going to crap on Roy, the same should hold true for Pacquiao.

Cupey

 

That's because they are smaller guys. Seriously, wtf.

 

I also admitted that I had not seen any of Cotto's last fights and you told me he looked like crap. I based my decision on the Cotto I had seen in the past. Just read my post you will see I made it clear.

Cupey

 

Then what would you call them?

 

Joe King is consistently stupid and wrong. I thought I had him on ignore.

 

No shit? I didn't know that. The point is how can you boast of Pacquiao's resume and shit on PBF's and put those opponents in comparison.

 

I think its close, and I give the slight edge to Mayweather in terms of their overall competition. I think it tilts in Floyd's favor that he beat DLH and Hatton before Pacquiao did.

I would say that if Pac beats Floyd then he would rank a little higher all time than Floyd if he beat Pac... but not by a lot. Pac started out at a much lighter weight and even tho he has acclimated brilliantly i think its a little more impressive for Pac to win in an all time, P4P sense.

But if Floyd wins, as I think he will, he better damn well get the credit he deserves. Pac has proven himself to be a full on welterweight now, beating up Cotto without the plaster