Was Cotto overrated?

Yeah, I guess so since what he said there didn't happen. He didn't fight Shane before his boss Oscar did he?

 

Nope and I knew he wouldn't but I had to kind of relent. It was the only way REED was ever going to shut up about it. ::

 

Well, you can't argue with REED about this.

What Floyd says = truth.
What Shane Says = lies.

According to REED.

 

Nah, he never disputed that Shane wanted the fight he was just giving PBF too much benefit of the doubt IMO. What pisses me off is people continuing to run around claiming the "loose tooth" comment was not only a moment when Shane ducked Floyd but also a moment that Floyd offered Shane a fight.

 

Yeah, REED knows the fight was never realistic. We should just stop talking about this. I respect REED's current view on Floyd we shouldn't talk about the last.


on a side note, why in the fuck is Slystaff sending me messages instead of posting on here? is he banned or something? WTF?

 

What'd he say?

 

This is what Shane said before the 2nd Vargas fight:

Mosley (right) said he won't fight Mayweather this year if he beats Vargas (left). (AP Photo/Nick Ut)


If pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather Jr. is waiting to see if Shane Mosley defeats Fernando Vargas in their July 15 junior middleweight rematch before deciding whom to fight in the fall, he shouldn't bother.

Mosley this week shot down the notion that he could be next for Mayweather, who intends to fight Nov. 4 on HBO PPV, even though he has no opponent at the moment.

"They can stop thinking about that because it won't happen," Mosley said during a conference call with reporters to discuss the fight with Vargas. "They can come to this fight and check it out, but that won't happen in November. It will probably happen sometime next year. I am not going to have a fight after this until next year. I won't fight again until 2007."

Oscar De La Hoya was Mayweather's first choice, but he recently announced he would not fight until at least May 2007. Now Mosley has slammed the door on a fall fight with Mayweather, increasing the pressure on him to fight the one top opponent who has already agreed to terms: welterweight titlist Antonio Margarito.

Mosley's take on what Mayweather should do:

"Basically, go fight Margarito," he said. "Go fight Margarito -- then we can fight the winner."

Mosley said he is moving back down to welterweight after the Vargas fight and wants time to get reacclimated to the division he once ruled before targeting Mayweather.

"I'm pretty sure that Floyd would be interested in it, but I have to take some time to get to 147," Mosley said. "I have to take a little break after two fights with basically a 160 pounder [Vargas]. We are going to relax and see where we go from here, but definitely, the next fight will be at welterweight."

Promoter Bob Arum has said repeatedly he has offered Mayweather a career-best $8 million purse (plus a healthy upside of potential pay-per-view profits) to fight Margarito Oct. 7 in Las Vegas, and that he wasn't asking for options on future Mayweather fights. Mayweather, however, has shown little interest in the fight, leading many to say he is ducking Margarito.

 

He wants to talk on facebook to the number on Floyd hater (me)

::

I don't even hate Floyd, I hate the best fights not happening!

Show yourself Seabiscuit!

 

That DIDN'T End Up Happening Because Shane HIMSELF Cited a Toothache AND a Vacation, in the 1st Link REED Provided...So INSTEAD of Fighting Shane (who Took HIMSELF Out of the Equation), Floyd Ended Up Facing Baldomir THEN Dela...


REED:hammert:

 

Mosley said PRIOR to that fight that a fight in November was out of the question. Of course then Floyd "calls him out" when he knew it was not going to happen. The toothace and vacation have nothing to do with anything. It was clear prior to any of that the fight wasn't happening in November.

 

AGAIN, SPARE REED the "Ducking" Talk in Regards to Floyd & Shane Then...Shane KO'ed Vargas in July, yet Took Himself OUT of a Date that was Scheduled for 4 MONTHS LATER???...Does it HONESTLY Take 4 Months to Get a Tooth Fixed & Go on a Vacation???...

You CAN'T CRY about the Big Fights ESCAPING U in 2009 when YOU WILLINGLY Took YOURSELF Out of the Big Fight Mix in 2006...CAN'T have it BOTH Ways...



REED:nono:

 

4 months? And he had not made 147 is how long?

I'm not claiming ducking, I'm claiming there was never a realistic possibility of this fight happening.

 

Come on dude, 4 months to go back to Welterweight for his biggest fight possible is more than enough. Wasn't Shane screaming to the wind a few months ago how he would go to 142 to fight Manny? ::

 

It wasn't just the weight. He needed a break after 3 fights that year. Also Floyd never made an offer to Shane. What REED is referring to is a post fight commentator asking Shane his thoughts on a Floyd fight. Now correct me if I'm wrong but since when are fights made or not made during post fight interviews?

 

He said he would make 142 NOW, not coming off a fight at 154. I don't care though, this is one of the most pointless debates ever. ::

The fight needs to happen NOW, fuck the past.

 

its pretty clear mayweather jr wanted no part of margarito, but to say he avoided mosley and cotto is laughable.

 

Based on what? If anything you can argue he didn't really avoid Margarito.

 

:doh: Ho Ho Ho! ,..Lib four Lib PERRRRRRRLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAASSSSEEE,..

 

After Mayweather beat Hatton, Merchant mentioned the possiblity of facing Paul Williams, Margarito, Cotto and Cintron and Mayweather hinted they were too big. The HBO team(Lampley, Merchant and Steward) discused his reaction after that. Soon after HBO aplied pressure to Mayweather to fight one of them and soon after Mayweather retired. So perhaps Mayweather didn't avoid Cotto directly.

But lets look back a bit in time.

April 19th, 2003
Mayweather fights and beats Victoriano Sosa. On the undercard Miguel Cotto beats Joel Perez. At the press conference Cotto and Mayweather exchange words and Mayweather sayes he wants Cotto next. Cotto's camp responds of course he wants Cotto, Miguel is only 14-0! Let us get Miguel(Cotto) a little more experiance and we'll take the fight. ~ Source Ring Magazine article 2003
Two years later Larry Merchant asks Floyd after a fight on HBO, are you willing to fight Cotto. Mayweather says he's not good enough, and quickly changes the subject!

But back to the original question "Was Cotto overrated?"

I think Cotto was not overrated, the fact that he could outbox Shane Mosley was proof of that.
But, the question that I ask is was he really recovered from the Margarito fight. He took a beating and wheither he was all the way back, might never be known.

 

he was back physically I think.. compleltely.. but it's the mental, he just not the same after getting brutalized and battered vs Margerito.. he got dominated and it took some of his confidence away.

it WAS impressive in the Shane fight.. I never really thought he was THAT good but he out boxed Shane, granted Shane was fighting so strange.. throwing one shots here and there...

Margerita just domminated him with plaster gloves. just really brutalizing him like a drunken bum..

 

Wow, I would say the exact opposite. To me his mental state was clearly 100% warrior, the guy didn't quit on Clottey with a horrible gash and didn't quit on Pac as he got beat up badly. He came in to both fights confidently, trading with Pac and winning some rounds IMO.

But you can see how quickly he deteriorates physically now in these fights. After about 3-4 rounds of just sparse punches he wears out badly. He is far, far easier to knock down than he used to be. What Cotto has lost most of all is punch resistance and that sort of physical stamina he used to have so much of.

For that reason, I agree that it may indeed be Margarito that truly ended Cotto's career as elite. It is speculation, but historically I think you can see trends of formerly durable fighters who suffer brutal head punishment in a long fight coming back and being hurt much, much easier. Vargas is a perfect example. There are many more.

 

I feel Cotto was never that durable to begin with. He'd been stunned a few times by B-level comp although that isn't too much of a deal since most of them were from good well placed shots. I think his fading in the Mosley fight was the biggest indicator of his lack of durability.

I think what seperated Cotto though was he was mentally strong enough to keep on fighting through those periods of pain where lesser fighters would have quit. For instance Clottey is a fighter who seems more physically durable than Cotto, but he is less mentally strong and therefore failed to defeat Cotto even though he had Cotto obviously fading and wilting under his attack.

That alone should paint a picture of what a great fighter Cotto was. He wasn't the most talented guy around, and wasn't even that physically durable, but he went pretty far and for a time was the unquestioned best welter out there. Maybe his biggest downfall was taking on so much top tough competition back to back to back, but he wasn't overrated.

 

Yes.

 

There was an interview on Fighthype.com recently where Shane pretty much admitted the fight was offered too him but they wanted him to fight too soon and he wasn't ready to jump into it on the date they wanted but he said he was willing to do it a few months later after that but Floyd went ahead with another fight... I have to go look it up..