Arreola/Minto Williams/Martinez

Agreed! Martinez threw the harder cleaner shots. I also felt he won.

 

Pavlik's punches look 'slow and soft' .. but they're clearly not,.. when you say 'harder punches' .. do you mean, quicker punches?.. do you mean flashy handspeed?.. it's no way to reward the fight to Martinez.

 

Terrific fight. I wasn't expecting that.

I think even in defeat, Martinez's stock has risen. A lot of people have been quietly talking Martinez up in recent times...last night he proved himself.

A rematch seems probable....hopefully they'll do it at 154.

Got to give props to Minto who put up one of the bravest efforts i've seen vs Arreola, who btw is no better than Minto....just a lot bigger.

 

I mean punches that were snapping Williams head around all night long. Martinez clearly landed the harder cleaner shots. It was a close fight but I had it for Martinez.

 

You make it sound like Martinez was slapping and that was not the case at all. In fact, he landed the heaviest shots of the fight while Williams was having a higher workrate, as usual.

 

I think Williams was hitting Martinez just as hard, it's just that Martinez reacts to the punches better and in a less exaggerated fashion.

It's one of the downfalls of Williams build and style I think. He has a very good chin but from the very first time I saw him fight, it always looks like he's getting hurt with shots he's not. His head is like a giant swivel on the end of a very long neck. He's like a bobble-head doll. When he rolls with a punch it looks like his head damn near comes off it's axis, lands in the 3rd row, and cartoon like, bounces right back into the ring. ::

 

Maybe, but still, Martinez wasn't slapping, that was my main point.

 

I know what you mean, but still, overall Martinez hurt him more than vice versa. That right hook in the 8th had Williams falling into the clinch. I might need to take another look at it, but he may have gone down hadn't it been for Martinez....to his credit, and to both guys credit....whenever they got buzzed, they didn't wait a second to come back with anything. Their heads cleared pretty quick.

I really enjoyed the fight, probably my favourite fight of the year.

 

Agree. I probably quoted the wrong post. Just wanted to point out Williams was landing some solid shots in there to. He wasn't just volume punching.

 

That was a very clsoe, very difficult fight to score.

I had Martinez 115-113 because he seemed to consistently land the bigger shots... he definitley did more damage

But I could totally see a two point swing the other way because of Williams' pressure and volume.

Was a good fight

And whoever said Williams has a shaky chin is an idiot... he got hit with some oo the cleanest shots you'll ever see while he was defenseless in mid-punch and he took them, he went down once on a perfect shot. He has an outstanding chin

And Lampley was terrible as usual, except for his outrage about the one judge with the 119-110 score, which he was highly justified cimplaining about.

 

bear in mind, Octopus only feels that way because Williams is a black guy

 

You're probably right. I think Martinez was hurt a couple times to. Difference was Williams head looked like it was bouncing back from the 3rd row whenever he got tagged pretty good. When Martinez got tagged he would fall in and grab Williams. Several of those football like clinches we saw in there were the product of Martinez getting hurt and wrapping up Tall Paul to slow the action down.

I probably wouldn't have had any problem with a close decision going either way, though I thought Williams just squeaked him out in actual rounds won.

 

clean, effective punching is the number one factor in scoring a fight. If you are emphasizing anything else over that, you are doing it wrong

 

I'm convinced Lampley has a man-crush on all light-skinned Latino boxer-puncher types. I could have sworn he shouted out the name "Oscar" a few times, while Sergio Martinez was in the middle of a flurry. ::

If Sergio turned out to be bi-lingual, I think he would have came in his pants, mid-interview.

 

remember when Hoya stopped Vargas?

"AND OSCAR DE LA HOYA HAS THE MOST SATISFYING VICTORY OF HIS CAREER!!! AND I'M EJACULATING COPIOUSLY ALL OVER LARRY MERCHANT!!!"

 

Also, though I did think Martinez edged it out and won the fight, his number one defensive tactic is to wrap his lead arm around his opponent's waist and rest his head on the guy's chest... he did this at leats 5 times a round last night and was never warned, it works as a tactic but it is infuriating to watch at times

 

::::

 

Martinez beat the hell out of Williams even though the scoring was close...they have this fight in Argentina and Williams gets knocked out

the 119-110 score was a joke..that judge should be banned from boxing..LOL

 

Funny, everybody says Martinez beat the hell out of Williams but it was Martinez's face that look like chopped burger at the end of the fight.

Most of the damage Williams sustained was from head butts. Oh, and for all of Max's disparaging comments about Paul Williams cut team.............they did a fantastic job closing up that gash above his left eye.

Manny actually put Max in his place when he started pretending he knew how to be a cut man.

 

I will say, Martinez is a very classy guy. He seemed to be more aware then anybody else in his camp that this fight could only help him in the long run..........no matter what the official decision.

 

Well then,.. Williams should stop the aggression, because it leaves him vulnerable for the trump card counter pot-shot (also known as 'the cleaner harder punch' )... he should back up, tuck his chin, stick his glove to the side of his head, and run around the perimetre, cautiously jabbing with the occasional long straight. Williams could march forwards chopping away at somebodies guard wanting to knock them out, in an always action packed honourable exhibition that causes some 'eery entertainment'.. but it's that occasional pot-shot from the negative fighter that's the most valuable to the scoring criteria, and deserving of the round. So the sooner these high workrate, front foot, action fighters like Williams stop being 'open suckers' and learn to bitch up, and beg for fellow counter-punchers to enter thier timing ranges the way it's supposed to be done,.. the better the fights should be for the fans.

 

I just watched the tape of this having avoided spoiling the result.

First of all great fight. I scored it 114 - 114 which was generous to Williams I think. He got a lot of close rounds on my card for his workrate, where the rounds Martinez won were more decisive. It was close though and a Williams win in not a robbery by any stretch. Both guys fought great fights and their reputations have grown.

The scoring though is a fucking tragedy. 119 - 110? This is boxing's shame.
I mean HBO couldn't stop saying how they were the two best JM's going around, a 'real' championship fight. Yet they have an official who clearly doesn't know anything about boxing or is corrupt.

This was a great fight all the way through until the 3rd score card was announced. I was all excited and then I hear "119-110" and knew I'd been wasting my time, Williams was always going to get it.

Shame.

 

True, it is widely known that Williams' chin gets weaker when he fights below the equator.

 

If they fought in Tokyo Martinez wouldn't last a round.

 

:: Did you cry a little bit while writing this post?

Seriously, I don't think clean hard blows completely erase workrate and agression but you have to factor that too. There are shades of grey you know.

 

::

I tried to ignore that comment when I first saw it because I couldn't think of anything snappy to say.

 

::::

Yeah that was the 2nd most ridiculous statement I have read on the fight, after another person saying the first knockdown was no knockdown. ::

 

I thought it was a draw. Martinez did control the ring very well in much of the fight, moving athletically and making Paul miss repeatedly. But at the same time, Paul Williams pressed the action for much of the fight showing how his pressure style can make throw anybody of their game.

Punch wise, of course Williams threw like a maniac. But there is no denying that Martinez landed punches which stunned or just plain HURT Paul Williams over, and over, and over again. I agreed with one thing Kellerman said, which was that if I had to chose to be one fighter in that fight, I'd pick Martinez as I felt Paul Williams took a lot of stinging head punishment.

Thus on balance I have a hard time giving either the edge, and my scorecard showed that as well. If anything I would say I could see the bout lean towards Martinez - but 114-114 seems like a very accurate score to me.

And finally, I agree with whoever it was that posted comments earlier in this thread about enjoying Williams now. There is no way in Hell he will be around for more than another year or two as a top level fighter. No way. As he ages he will NOT make these absurd weights for his frame, and as he gets pounded flush over and over his chin will crack further (as it did tonight) until he will be getting dropped from every punch Michael Grant style. Williams style is great for boxing fans, but is unmaintainable and he will burn our fast.

 

Williams didn't look too happy with that win

 

Nah, Max was right. Steady pressure rather than pushing the swelling away from the eye is what you hear more often than not these days.