Your NEW p4p top 5

Hard for me to put Dawson in the top 5 pfp. Besides Adamek. He has barely been beating past their prime old guys and not looking good doing it.

 

Quite opposite styles and they're the best at their respective styles so...

Who does Shane not have the style to beat? ::

 

The Fact that Dawson BEAT Adamek is what TRUMPS what Adamek has Went On to Do...If Dawson had LOST Since Beating Adamek, REED Could See your Point...But he HASN'T, he's UNDEFEATED...& if the Tables were Reversed, REED KNOWS U'd See his Point...

Funny How Toney & Adamek were "Drained" when they Finally LOST...When they were WINNING, we Didn't Hear that Shit Though, Did We???...Yet When Roy Speaks of Being Drained in his WIN Over Tarver, NOBODY Wants to Buy It...Funny How that "Drained" Thing Works::...

w/Out Question, Roy Jones Went on to GREATER Things than Toney Did, After their Fight...Shit, Toney COMPLETELY FELL OFF the Map for SEVERAL Years After that, While Roy Went to 175 THEN Heavyweight...THEN Came Back Down & RE-Won @ 175...Roy was Getting Criticized for even NEGOTIATING w/Holyfield, but Here YOU R CREDITING Toney for Beating him???...

James Toney has NO Arguement Whatsoever Over Roy...What EXACTLY Does Being a "Val Barker Recipient" have to Do w/the Pros, Dude???::...& How EXACTLY did that "Val Barker Recipient" Fair when HE Moved Up to Heavyweight???...

Your ENTIRE Premise is BOGUS...U're NITPICKING Dawson for Slapping Around guys "Past their Best", but we're Supposed to PRETEND that a 40+ Year Old Golota was ANYWHERE CLOSE to HIS???...Yeah, O.K..



REED:hammert:

 

& REED has NO Problem w/that...But there's NO WAY Adamek Can B Rated HIGHER than Dawson, Lb for Lb...


REED:hammert:

 

Pacquiao
Mayweather
Hopkins
Mosley
Williams


JMM

 

Yes, there is, in the same way that Toney could have been pfp higher than Jones at around the same time that Jones was getting KO'd by Tarver. Around about the same time Roy was regaining his senses, Toney was regaining some ground.

You are right. I dont accept that Roy was drained vs Tarver. He wasn't drained, he was just....damaged by the weight fluctuation.

Drained is when you turn in a listless performance over a certain distance. Damaged is more typified by the sudden loss of punch resistance. Not that it makes a whole pile of difference. Roy was not the old Roy. I accept that. I never said Prime Roy got beaten.

Would you rate Winky Wright pfp higher than Shane Mosley now? Of course not...even tho' Winky beat him twice. Since they last fought, Winky has done a lot of losing. Shane has done some too but not as much and not as badly, and thus has overtooken Winky, with big wins over Cheato and Mayorga. If he beats Berto, he moves just so far ahead again of a guy who has been losing to Hopkins, Paul Williams, and indulging us with stinkfests vs an ancient Ike Quartey.

Since Dawson and Adamek fought, Dawson has done a lot of struggling, and Adamek has done a lot of knocking-the-fuck-out of naturally bigger men.

As I say, we can agree to disagree, but I would prefer if you didnt act as my version of events was totally devoid of merit. When Dawson beat Adamek, yeah, sure, he was pfp higher. Since then....Adamek has closed the gap.

 

i think its valid to say Adamek has closed the gap... but without a Dawson loss, i don't think you can say he has overtaken him... certainly not yet.

 

Thats where I disagree. The guy has jumped 2 weight divisions, fought good competition, won titles and knocked a lot of guys out, in the meantime how is Dawson going to lose fighting the comp he is fighting? Glen Johnson? Tarver? That shit is ancient. He somehow allowed Hopkins and Calzaghe to slip off his radar {he is probably faultless, but a fight that does not happen is a fight that does not happen} and at present has not knocked anyone out for 2 years. I think there comes a point, and we may have reached it, when the wins and the stepping-up by Adamek have to count that bit more than the relative stagnation of Dawson.

 

Fair points. I do agree with your theory of stagnation. I guess I just don't feel Dawson is stagnant enough yet

 

:cheer:

He probably isn't, as I said, we may have reached it, or we may not. If not, its awful bloody close.

I am looking at the names and I just don't see anything that is going to guarantee him pfp status. How much longer can he juggle the names of Tarver and Johnson into significant wins?

If Dawson gets onto the pfp list by beating Adamek and Glen "Sven ottke" Johnson, then why wasn't Adamek on the list himself beforehand??

 

James Toney was Effectively OFF the Radar for the Better Part of a DECADE B 4 he Resurfaced Against Jirov...After RUNNING Boxing in the Toney Interim, Roy Jones was 35 when he was KO'ed by Tarver & FOLLOWED that w/a KO to Glen Johnson...CLEARLY, Roy was PAST the Point of Establishing or PROVING his Lb for Lb Worth by Then...Perhaps You MISSED the PRECEDING 10+ YEARS, when Roy was Almost UNIVERSALLY Acknowledged as THE MAN Lb for Lb???...

Toney "Regained" SOME Ground, but Not NEARLY Enough to SURPASS Roy OR Render Roy's WIN Over him Useless (MORE Importantly)...

Winky Wright has Lost TWICE Since he Beat Sugar Shane...AND he had a LENGTHY Period of Inactivity...Not Really Sure HOW that's Comparable to the Dawson-Adamek Scenario..."Struggling" & "LOSING" AIN'T the Same Kettle of Fish, Dude:nono:...& KO'ing Lennox Lewis/Lamon Brewster/Michael Grant/Mike Tyson/John Ruiz & Ray Austin LEFTOVERS AIN'T Praiseworthy...Not when U're Trying to Sell a Bag of Goods Suggesting that Adamek Should B Ranked HIGHER than the 1 Guy that's BEAT him in his Career...

Until Dawson LOSES or Adamek BEATS Dawson, your "Points" ARE w/Out Merit...Sorry...



REED:hammert:

 

Let's B CLEAR...

Steve Cunningham was "Good" CRUSIERWEIGHT Competition...Ditto for Johnathon Banks...But were EITHER Of them REALLY Better than the Versions of Tarver & Johnson that Dawson Fought???...U're COMPLAINING about Chad Dawson NOT Knocking Anybody Out, but WHO was Cunningham KO'ing???...

& Since U're Clinging to it, Perhaps Banks was "Drained" HIMSELF when he Lost to Adamek...He's Certainly MOVED UP Quite a Bit Since that KO Loss, which Makes U WONDER @ Least...

Believe it or Not, People Actually WANTED the Dawson-Johnson RE...THAT'S why it Happened...



REED:hammert:

 

:doh: at putting HWs in p4p rankings.

 

We are comparing Chad Dawson and Adamek. The question you should be asking is who was knocking Cunningham out. Not many people had done a whole lot to him before Adamek floored him three times in one fight.

Again, if Dawson cracks the pfp for the win over Adamek, wasn't Adamek pfp to begin with? Why would beating Adamek get a fella on the pfp list if Adamek was not pfp material in the first instance?:nono:

One guy who should be on the pfp list and who is going to be on it in due course, is Arthur Abraham.

 

For what it's Worth, REED Thinks Lb for Lb is PLAYED OUT as Well...Being "THE BEST Fighter in the World Lb for Lb" STILL Means Something & That Title Belongs to Either Floyd Mayweather OR Manny Pacquiao...But the Rest is POINTLESS, Honestly...



REED:hammert:

 

Thats probably true, but its there, and like the weather, people are always going to talk it up.

 

:nono: Manny Pacquiao is the top fighter PFP. Being retired and beating JMM doesn't cut it.:hammert:

 

Yeah but Floyd didn't lose during that retired period.

 

REED ISN'T Arguing Against Tomasz Adamek Being ON a Lb for Lb List, REED is Arguing him Being Rated HIGHER on Said List than Chad Dawson...The BULK of Dawson's Work (INCLUDING the WIN Over Adamek, the LONE Loss of Adamek's Career) Warrants it...

Totally agREED on your Last Sentence...In Fact, REED has Been 1 of the Guys CHAMPIONING Abraham's Cause in Your Absence...



REED:hammert:

 

Manny won though, and he won big fights.

 

Beating Hatton & DeLa "More Impressively" than Floyd Did is what GOT Manny Pac the Lb for Lb "Title" in the 1st Place...So Beating Marquez "More Impressively" Than Pac Did Doesn't @ Least ARGUABLY Swing the Pendulum Back to Floyd????...



REED:dunno:

 

Dude, I was kidding.:warning:

Manny Pac is the worlds best fighter up and until such stage as Mayhweather fights him.

 

No, cos he beat the shit out of Cotto in the meantime.

And when he fought Marquez, he didnt have a weight advantage of around 20lbs and a couple of $600,000 get out of jail clauses.

 

Manny beat JMM at his best weight. He didn't make him skip 2 divisions. Beating DLH was impressive because nobody knew how he would handle the added weight. He beat Hatton after Mayweather impressively beat him, I'll give you that. But he beat Hatton even more impressively at his best weight. Mayweather might have taken something out of him though, and that's why I was still doubting. The Cotto fight was the clear difference maker for me. The last time Floyd beat a fighter of Cotto's level at his best weight, I think Pac was still a Super Bantam. That's how I see it.

 

Floyd Beat DeLa @ a BETTER Weight than Manny Pac Did...



REED:hammert:

 

True. I still think Cotto was a bigger win for Manny.

 

Manny fought Hatton at Hattons preferred weight too, no?

 

No Doubt...


REED:hammert:

 

If REED Isn't Mistaken it was Hatton that "Preferred" the Fight B @ 147, to have 140 to Fall Back On...



REED:hammert: