Vitali versus a sparring partner

Ruiz quit when his wife hired that shit-hot attorney.....he only avoided a street-crawling rap when he turned States Evidence on that Pimping beef. He then quit the USA, to lose to Big Nick down Rhineland way.

 

Nice year for Vitali, if not always for the viewer. If he can fight three times again in 2010, and Wlad takes on chambers and povetkin, they could pretty much have cleared the division between them and I'd imagine Vitali will retire in 2011

 

I think he will retire after the Haye bout, win or lose, whenever that is.

 

I think afer the Sanders fight, he hit his mental prime,..he's been able to deal with pressure fighters easily, and now consistantly executes varied hooks, uppercuts and body-shots,..which is ordinarily a Euro 'no no'.. "das not ze way itch dun in za amachers!":shit:. As of right now, Vitali is at his most skilled, some people say he is physically declining,..I dont know, maybe he is, but mentally he's fucken sound, he's had no coach his entire life, Fritz maybe a nice old man, but he's woefully incompetant, so in a way it's forced Vitali to have to improvise in the ring, and he's gained some excellent practical experience from it.

 

Vitali thrives off the relative uselessness of Sdunek. Sdunek keeps his mouth shut and gives Vitali a solid training camp, and Vitali does the fighting. Seems to work.

 

Vitali could also do with a coach of a different race, because, seriously, it's starting to look a bit 'suspicious' to me,.. he's got a white trainer, a white cut man, a white brother,..etc,..etc,.. connotations, it's just ooooozing with connotations, and it's asking for trouble.

 

Stats from the fight

Punches Kevin Johnson:

Power punch thrown: 54
Power punch landed: 5
Jab: 60/278
Overrall: 65/332

Punches Vitali Klitschko:

Power punch thrown: 264
Power punch landed: 141
Jab: 157/749
Overrall: 298/1013


Some remarkable (if not funny) stats: Vitali broke the heavyweight record of jabs by a wide margin. He also landed more than half of his power shots. Kevin Johnson landed five power punches in twelve rounds. Could that be a record as well?

 

Why is he a boring fighter then?

 

This is just stupid.

 

::

 

Sdunek has proven himself over and over and over. There are very few trainers in the world with his resume of champs. And I would add, Sdunek's champs seemingly don't have the physical gifts of his other top-level peer trainers.

 

It has to be. And I'd guess only throwing 54 power shots is a record, too.

 

DAMN,.. I thought you were being sarcastic the first time you said it,.. and because I remember it from so long ago, you know it had to hurt.

 

KauKip is right, and you know it. I wouldnt be surprised if he is taking Jabstrol to help him throw those jabs.

 

Are there no decent boxing coaches out there in the gyms of America, or is it just that boxing only attracts the fluke component of athletes here?

Vitali Klitshcko is a complete heavyweight. How did he get to be? Arreola is moderately skilled offensively with no defense and insufficient stamina. Kevin Johnson is very skilled defensively, and appears to be quite athletic, but is about as clueless an offensive fighter as I have ever seen. The guy is 6'4'' and all of 245 pounds and he has 9 KOs in 24 fights?

What is frustrating to me is that Johnson showed how a good defense can be used to befuddle Vitali, make him work harder than he wants to, and create giant openings for counterpunches - but Johnson was incapable of throwing more than maybe 4 power punches in a ROUND. Good god.

A more complete fighter would have made this fight a really excellent bout. In fact, can you imagine a whole crop of complete fighters coming up to fight the Klits? There would be real intrigue in the division. Of course every heavy has his weaknesses - there are no perfect fighters - but I am getting the sense that Vitali's "greatness" is in very large part due to the simply inadequate preparation of his competition. These are guys with NO fight plan to speak of (or at least no intelligent plan), and who lack the basic skills or will it takes to pull off a good fight plan.

What are they doing in the gym for 8 weeks before the fight? Could Johnson's handlers really not see that his offensive workrate not only in the gym, but in his previous fights was simply INSUFFICIENT to best Vitali, especially given the lack of power?

I guess these guys are just taking the fights for the payday and the freak chance Vitali tears some important part of his physique and quits. There just has to be some trainers out there who can mold raw talent into a well-rounded fighter... but if there are, I don't see them. Vitali is obviously a beatable fighter, but if you look at why he seem unbeatable by this crop of heavies, it is not hard to see that he has (a) good offense, and a good mix of punches (b) good defense, uses distance well and leans away from punches (c) good workrate & good stamina. I don't think he's "great" in any area, except sheer workrate, which would certainly be moderated against a fighter who was actually hitting him.

Clearly at 6'7'' he has natural advantages that you can't train, and that makes him difficult to beat for anyone, but the nuts and bolts are not too complicated. He is a complete fighter. Why even bother to put your guy in with him when your guy throws 4 power punches per round?

God help Alexander Povetkin, another victim of this generation of "trainers", whom Teddy Atlas will surely ruin.

 

Johnson sure talked a lot of shit to come in and not even try to win. What a fucking disgrace. Chris Arreola would beat that guy. All he has to do is throw 10 punches a round and he wins. Johnson is a one armed fighter with a VERY inactive one arm.

 

Vitali didn't get cut and bruised by nothing punches. Johnson tried to win, its just how he tried to win that upsets people. He felt he could frustrate and wear-down Klitschko. When he found he could not, he was left with no plan B, and nearly got KO'd himself.

 

Very good post. :bears:

 

Didn't you remember? They are all playing Basketball and Football. :atu:

They are all playing basketball. Lebron James, who would kill Klitschko, is doing the old orange bouncey ball routine. Mike Grant is retired- lucky for Vitai.

I dont know if a good defense can be used to befuddle Vitali per se, but it can make him look awkward and yes, expose him to counterpunching opportunities..... when he himself is looking for a KO he does not need to look for

Vitali generated a lot of offense and Kevin was covering up a lot.

Can you imagine if Henry Cooper was not a paper-skin 187lb "heavyweight"? He could have had Cassius out of there. One gets the point.

Do not forget that Vitali himself has a hell of an ability to adapt- principally by applying pressure, taking his lumps and outworking his opponents. Johnson may have decided to gamble late-on, but was jaded by the time the later rounds arrived. More jaded than a 38 year old with impressive stamina.

 

This is plausible. At some point though there comes the time when you just have to accept that maybe the fighter is just a bit better than he seems to be, if the results are good. Whether or not Vitali has done enough to earn that nod is debatable.

I am referring to the same phenomenon where Dubblechin (one of the most knowledgeable boxing fans I know) pointed out that Bernard Hopkins was not special in any department and that he wouldn't be a great in some other eras, and this happened after the Joppy fight

 

Johnson didn't try much, the damage to Vitali's eye happened very early and was caused by a grazing punch, nothing real damaging. That eye was looking puffy and Johnson had many rounds to target it, it was no more damaged at the end of the fight than it was at the midway point.

Johnson just simply didn't fight enough to even give himself a chance. I have a ton more respect for Arreola and the way he fought. At least he gave it everything he had. If that is everything Kevin Johnson has, he just isn't very good.

 

Dubblechin might be knowledgeable, ie well versed in boxing history, but he is an idiot. His opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt.

But I agree Ugo. Sometimes you have to look at the results.

Vitali looks kind of beatable. Big, lumbering, a bit slow, clumsy, and uncoordinated, but I think it's now obvious he is a very hard man to beat. Nowhere near as slick or polished as his brother, doesn't hit quite as hard, isn't as fast. But evidently, much harder to beat, and thus - overall a better fighter.

 

Do you think he has slipped since his comeback? It has been suggested that 22 rounds to deal with Arreola and Johnson is evidence of a slip.

Were Johnson and Arreloa just that fresh, so convinced that they could not be stopped, or was it just that Vitali is not as dominant as before?

 

Plus I get the feeling Dubblechin likes to go against the grain just for the Hell of it. ::

 

Well thats how you smooth wood, its like only dead fish go with the flow. A contrarian view or two is what Fight"beat" needs.

 

Arreola had Vitali fighting going backwards, you don't knock guys out fighting like that. He was overly defensive in that fight.

The Johnson fight, all I can say is he did a great job trying not to get knocked out. He has a fairly good defense, he made good use of it.

Vitali looks to be slowing a bit though, not much and it doesn't seem to matter as he's still beating the so called top guys with ease.

 

He hasn't beaten any "top guys" ever since being knocked out by Lennox.
We can split hairs here until cows come home, but the facts remain: the guy made a career feasting on bums and fighting (not always succesfully) Ruiz's leftovers. He should step up, if he doesn't want to remain the laughingstock of the division.

 

If that was his plan then it's one of the most ill-concieved & badly executed ones i've seen in a while.

 

If someone's opinion happens to be different that most, that's cool, but when folks do it just to be different it's kinda weak.

I am amazed sometimes at how long folks around here can argue certain topics. It's not like everyone agrees all the time around here (far from it, actually) and we need some "contrarian" to shake things up.

 

Agreed. I have made this comparison before (and gotten laughed) that in a sense Vitali is like a young Muhammad Ali. Ali too looked beatable to his timers because he did everything wrong and for long his success was explained to be a result of bad competition or old opponents. The physical attributes that made Clay and Vitali successful were different, but both showed dominance against their timers