James Toney wants to fight in the UFC

http://www.mmamania.com/2009/12/16/1203156/punch-drunk-boxing-legend-james#comments

I doubt Toney is serious, but if he is, he better set his sights on Kimbo and nobody else. He wouldn't come close to beating Couture or Liddell, and if he fought Lesnar it might just be the first homicide ever aired on PPV.


TFK

 

Couture's chin isn't that good, Toney would certainly have a puncher's chance there. I think he beats Chuck at this stage. Chuck doesn't do anything but stand with guys, he will get KO'd.

Lesnar by Murder.

 

Toney has never been a 1 punch KO fighter. It wouldn't be like Mercer, who has legit 1 punch power, firing off an all or nothing shot against an uninterested, ridiculously out of shape Tim Sylvia. Couture would take Toney down before Toney could even throw a punch. Liddell, unless for some insane reason he decides to stand a trade, could take him down with ease as well. (And you could damn sure bet Dana White would drill into their heads not to stand with Toney).

Once Toney's on the ground, he's done.


TFK

 

I don't disagree about what would happen if it went to the ground, but Chuck IS a striker. I think he's stupid enough to stand with Toney. Toney is not a one punch KO artist with giant glove on his hands. Neither of us have seen him punch anyone with 4oz MMA gloves on though. He does pack a decent punch though, with boxing gloves.

 

Chuck is a striker by MMA standards, but lets not forget he is a former collegiate wrestler as well. This is where is unbelievable takedown defense came from. Guys like Toney and Mayorga see highlight reel KO's and think, "I can destroy that guy! His boxing sucks!" But anyone that is not a complete moron knows to just take them down and get the sub. I even think Kimbo gets the takedown and sub just like he did to Mercer.

 

as long as Toney has a modicum of wrestling knowledge ( and I did heard he used to wrestle in high school thought the source is dubious ), he'd beat Couture and Liddell no problem. Brock, I can't see anything else than a one sided loss for Toney

 

If James Toney LANDS w/a 4oz Glove On, it's CHURCH...He'll BADLY Hurt his Foe to the Degree that Only 1 or 2 MORE Shots will End the Fight OR he'll End it OUTRIGHT w/a Single Shot...Sure, Toney's "Never Been a 1 Punch KO Fighter" in 10 Ounce Gloves, but he's NEVER Been Featherfisted Either...& he's ALWAYS Been PRECISE w/his Shots...The Shot that Toney Dropped Michael Nunn w/ENDS 99.999% of MMA Fights...

6 FEWER Oz' s of Padding + Toney's BIGGER & STRONGER Now...

But it's All a Moot Point as Any SMART MMAist would Go for a TAKEDOWN & Render Toney Completely HELPLESS...Toney May Register Some Meaningless MMA Wins, but he Won't Make So Much as a RIPPLE Legitimately...




REED:hammert:

 

without a doubt. good post. The only boxer I have ever had an interest in seeing in MMA is Kermit Cintron. Obviously a world class boxer, but has a respectable history in wrestling.

 

The fact that you have to go back to 1938 to find an example of Toney's punching power ought to tell you something. Toney is not a puncher and wouldn't be a puncher in mma.

Toney is a skilled striker with his hands and if he has any sort of hurt-result in mma it will be entirely due to the fact that accuracy + little gloves = hurt. It will have nothing to do with his punching power because he doesn't have any.

 

REED Didn't "Have" to Do Shit...REED Could've just as Easily Referenced the Final Round of the Jirov Fight OR the Brutal KO of Jason Robinson Or the KO of Holyfield...Was it BEE STINGS & PILLOW FISTS that Put those Dudes on the Canvas???...

Do YOU Think Chuck Liddell Hits HARDER w/a Single Shot than James Toney Would, in a 4 oz. Glove???...REED Doesn't...Yet Liddell is a CONCUSSIVE 1-Shot MMA Puncher...If this is yet ANOTHER Example of your Attention STARVED, Contrarian BULLSHIT, Don't Bother Responding....



REED:shit:

 

By MMA standards Toney punches like a motherfucker.

Toney KO Lesnar.

 

How exactly would Toney beat Liddell or Couture? Even if Toney did 'wrestle in high school', that was 25 years ago, and his wrestling skills at his best would be nowhere near the skill of Couture and even Liddell.

One thing you have to remember as well, while the boxer may be able to hit harder with smaller gloves, his punch defense will suffer because of those smaller gloves. A good boxer picks off a lot of punches with his gloves, taking a lot of the sting out of the punch, or avoiding them altogether. Toney wouldn't have that luxury with MMA gloves. How he'd adapt to that is a huge question mark.

Like I said, if a fight between Toney and Couture\Liddell did ever take place, I'm sure it would be drilled into their heads not to stand with Toney. I'd be certain that the video of Mercer landing his Hail Mary against Sylvia would be shown to them repeatedly. Couture, I'm sure would be smart and take Toney to the ground immediately, but with Liddell it might take some convincing. At the end of the day though, I think Liddell would be smart and go for the quick takedown.


TFK

 

Toney's Always Been MORE of a Head & Shoulder Movement, Bob & Weave Type of Defender than a Block-with-the-Gloves Defender...If an MMAist Elected to BOX EXCLUSIVELY w/Toney in 4oz. Gloves, Toney would STILL B VERY Hard to Nail FLUSH...Now a Guy w/a SHELL Like, Winky Wright, Arthur Abraham, Josh Clottey Type of Defense would Run into the PROBLEMS that U Speak of, w/4 oz. Gloves....




REED:hammert:

 

his wrestling skills doesn't need to be even half as good as any of the mentionned, he just needs them to be good enough to be able to keep the fight standing. And considering Toney is an excellent inside fighter, who'll uppercut themr repetedly once they come to close, and that Liddell and Couture aren't the type to shoot (and considering their age, I doubt they'd be able to do effectively ), Toney wrestling, imo, needs to be just slightly better than mediocre to keep the fight standing. And standing, he murders both of them on the same night.

 

If I were the type to post laughing smiley faces, this is where I'd put a few dozen of them.


TFK

 

You are nuts. No way Toneys wrestling will ever be good enough to keep either of these guys from getting it to the ground. These guys have been training in getting fights to the ground their whole life. Toney comes in and trains TD defense for a couple months and will be able to keep them from taking him down? At his age? Pfffft. He will get destroyed, easily.

Another facet that people are leaving out if kicks/elbows. Something that Toney has never seen. Too much for him to look out for.

 

It's not contrarian, it's common sense. Just because Toney is a world class boxer doesn't mean that he has extraordinary power. His record is full of proof that he doesn't have it. Would Paulie Malignaggi be a cruncher in mma? Why not? His KO record isn't all that different from Toney's. Alright, make it Lamont Peterson or someone else with a barely above 50% ko ratio.

Punching power =/= good at boxing. Sure, Toney hits hard for an ordinary human being, but pro mma guys are not ordinary and they train just as much as a boxer in developing punching technique and whatever power you can train for. Okay, maybe dedicated boxers do more hand training because they are focused on one thing only, but that ain't James Toney.

Lots of college baseball players can hit a ball farther than many of those in the pros. Same for golf, same for this, same for that. Boxers aren't an exception. And especially, James "Can't turn out the lights with a shotgun" Toney.

 

this is coming from a guy who claims Sherk would ko PBF standing up in a MMA fight, I'd be worried if you'd agree with me

 

Don't get me wrong, Toney would have barely no chance vs a shooter, even an old one like Mark Coleman. But stylisically, I think he matches up very well with either Liddell or Couture providing he indeed has a small knowledge of wrestling. Couture dirty boxing would get him koed vs Toney, and it's pretty much a given Liddell would strike, and therefore, get koed.

 

I agree with you that there isn't much of a gap ( if there's one at all ) in punching power betwen a boxer and an MMA guy ( who knows how to punch). PUnching power is natural, when I boxed, from time to time, some bums would came in and, with no training, would punch like motherfuckers while some guy's had trained for years but couldn't cracked an egg.

But comparing Toney punching power with Maliggniaggi is ridiculous, Toney, while fighting well above his natural weight, still punches with authority, and with 4 oz gloves, you don't need more than that if you can place your shot as well as he can.

 

No, it's CLEARLY your LAME, ROUTINE Dose of CONTRARIAN BULLSHIT...Not Really Sure what PLEASURE U Derive from Going Out of way TRYING to B Different, but Whatever:shit:...

U're Clinging to Toney's KO Ratio in 10 oz. Gloves as "Proof" of him NOT Being Able to Punch in 4 oz. Gloves???....If 6 oz.'s of Padding WEREN'T ALOT WHY would Boxing Bother to Differentiate 8 oz. & 10 oz. for Certain Weight Classses???.....Furthermore WHY Would Trainers INSIST on Having Guys Spar in 14, 16 or even 18 oz. Gloves when Prepping for a Pro Boxing Match???...If the Amount of Padding was IRRELEVANT, they'd let them Spar in WHATEVER Size Gloves they Preferred...

James Toney is/was an ABOVE Average Puncher Wearing Much LARGER, Much HEAVIER Gloves than those Worn in MMA Bouts...In 4 oz.'s, Toney's Handspeed & POWER WILL INCREASE...How Could it NOT???...

There ISN'T a SINGLE MMAist on Earth that's "Trained as Much @ Developing Punching Technique" as James Toney has...Just as there's NO Pro Boxer that's CROSS TRAINED to the Degree that a Long Standing, Well Established MMAist has...The Mere Thought is IDIOTIC & just BOLSTERS REED's Point about How YOU CONSISTENTLY Go to EXTREMES in a PATHETIC Attempt @ Standing Out....

UNLIKE Pro's, College Baseball Players Use ALUMINUM Bats, DIPSHIT...What EXACTLY Was that Analogy Supposed to Illustrate???...Besides your TROLLish, Attention Starved Ways, that Is???...



REED:shit:

 

A guy like Toney in MMA with those little gloves is probably the best puncher in the 205 division, IMO. There's a definite disparity between a boxers punching ability and 99% of MMAists not only in power but most importantly in accuracy, timing etc. Won't be enough to save him against the first guy who goes for a take down of course, just saying.

 

You know what - he probably would be considered a very good puncher in MMA and score a good number of KOs. A) MMAists don't tend to have the same punch resistance, partly but not entirely due to the smaller gloves B) a boxers accuracy timing and placement is off the charts in MMA terms.

But again, don't construe that as me thinking a boxer can walk into MMA and compete it's obvious they can't because they're sitting ducks to take downs.

 

He'd B MORE of a "Puncher" In MMA than he Is in Boxing, that's for Sure...Doesn't Mean he'd WIN More Fights, but the THREAT of Malignaggi Registering a KO is GREATER in 4's than 8's....



REED:hammert:

 

Randy and Chuck arent idiots like Sylvia. They would train properly and use their advantages in this fight. Im sure they would use kicks/wrestling ability to dominate Toney in a sport that he is at a disadvantage in. To try to box him would play into his game, and be stupid. And, again, a small knowledge of wrestling will not be enough to beat an elite MMA fighter. Knowledge of wrestling is faaaar from training in it for a long period of time.

 

You do realize that his timing/accurancy wont be the same as it was in boxing, right? He now has to worry about kicks, takedowns, etc. Apples and oranges.

 

Yeah, and not only that but because the guys he's throwing at don't have anything like the chin or defence of top boxers. I've seen Marcus Davis send so many MMaists flying across the ring with stiffish jabs it's not even funny. And we saw what happened when Tim Sylvia who's chin is average by MMA standards stood with a half dead Ray Mercer for 4 and a half seconds. Boxers are specialized in the skill of punching to a degree thats off the MMA charts. But that's all Toney brings to an MMA ring and it's nowhere near enough & I'd imagine he knows it and is just looking for dollar dollar bills.

 

I don't think the difference in skill is reducible to that in ring....it's more a matter of specialization. Boxers spend every minute of their gym time from ten years old onward punching, they are just way more skilled at it in every department.

But of course the other elements render that useless if they can't deal with it, which Toney won't be able to. But I think if you could implant a top boxers skill set into a rounded MMAist or take a good punching MMAist and stick them in a boxing ring there would still be an enormous in-ring difference.

 

When did I ever say that?


TFK