Teddy Atlas Manny Pacquiao BOMBSHELL On FNF.

To V10 - your post is fair enough, I respect your point of view.

I'll tell you V10 in all honesty though, my viewpoint is absolutely not me being a nuthugger. I'm sure you can tell by my posts that my opinion is carefully considered, I'm not pulling nuthugging bulllshit out of the air.

To Hut Hut - indeed, that's certainly not the sort of viewpoint you might normally associate with me. But I am intelligent and perceptive, and this is my genuine take on the situation, it's NOT me being a Floyd hater, or a rabid Pacquiao fan.

Read the bolded paragraph by lob 4 lob above. This man knows the score.

I wouldn't usually look this deeply into something like this, I usually wouldn't try to look for a sneaky plan or a hidden motive, but this is Floyd we're talking about. I don't trust him one bit, and I think he has taken the path of least resistence for years, and has a fucked up egotistical personality to boot.

Like lb4lb pointed out, this is a man with a big ego, he undoubtedly would like to control the negotiations, he already said he deserved the bigger cut of the purse.

Now suddenly he quickly and quietly agrees to all these terms for the biggest fight of his life, against an opponent where he's done better numbers against common opposition? 50-50, Pacman's choice of gloves, an absolutely absurd weight penalty?

He just agreed straight away, didn't even try to negotiate or make a compromise?

You don't find that a bit suspicious coming from someone who has not fought a legit fighter in fuck knows how long, a fighter that "retired" instead of making 10/20 million to fight a rematch against someone who gave him a tough fight, and a fighter that gave the reason "He lives in Puerto Rico" as a reason for not wanting to fight Cotto?

Fucking come on, you think it's out of the realm of possibility that Floyd actually had no intention of fighting Pacman, no intention whatsoever, and this was all a big bluffing match with the intention of making him look good, and Pacquiao look bad?

Now from what I know of Floyd's character, not only would this not surprise me, but I actually find it fairly likely.

Is it possible I'm looking too much into it and I'm way off the mark? Of course, but this is my genuine take on the matter, I honestly think it's true.

 

Neither. More people like you, who only have the brainpower to decipher a situation at absolute face value, and think Manny "must" be taking steroids, and that Flid is the saviour of boxing, with his righteous new drug testing regime ::

 

Now that the fight is officially dead it blows my mind how Manny let go of 25+ million dollar payday over the testing. Same goes to PBF.

 

I must admit, watching FNF and seeing what Teddy had to say about these e-mails has raised some suspicion in my mind. If in the future it is proven Manny is taking somethng I will owe some Floyd fans an appology. For now I'm giving Manny the Benifit of the doubt.

 

Manny just came off a huge PPV fight and is not in need of money in any way.

 

hmmm then what about letting go of the biggest fight that can be made right now?:flip:

 

Manny simply doesn't need Floyd. What about Mayweather letting go of the biggest fight of his career and probably the biggest payday when it's a proven fact that he needs the money?

 

Floyd's plan all along was to sabotage the Pacquiao fight. His next strategy if the outrageous and unprecedented request for olympic-style testing hadn't worked was to request that an atomic-clock be used to time the rounds.

 

You pacman supporters are wack. ::

 

It's no secret I don't like Floyd, this just gives me more reason to not like the guy.

Putting the Manny vs Floyd debacle behind us, why on earth is Floyd negotiating with a Lightweight and Hatton-Lite? Are you giving him another pass?

 

Here we go again. Why is it that when trying to blame Floyd for the demise of the fight, posters are always resorting to tactics like this? You are actually arguing that since Floyd was so willing to take this fight, and so agreeable in negotiation, that this is some sort of evidence that he actually didn't want the fight and was in reality just making himself look good until the moment he killed the fight?

This is the corner you have worked yourself into? So when circumstances point directly and unequivocally toward Pac using PEDs, everyone has so much trouble with that "leap of faith", as it were. Yet you are engaging in almost irrational reverse-psychology speculation about Floyd's intentions, at one point citing "well I know his character", and have little problem drawing conclusions from that?

At least be consistent.

How many "Floyd's a coward" threads and posts have we seen, yes you know who you are. Yet again, where is the "evidence" of this? You know, the "court of law" evidence? Fights Floyd didn't take, that he says were due to money, or the other party being unavailable, and on and on? Isn't that what we call "circumstantial" evidence? Floyd never came out and admitted "I am a coward", so I fail to see any irrefutable proof (even though I actually agree with the notion.)

But again, that circumstantial evidence is PLENTY to conclude Floyd is a fight-killing coward... yet in Pac's case far more dire "circumstancial" evidence is wholly insufficient to even wager a guess as to his PED use and what consequence that had on the fight failing.

Floyd may be a coward. And a weasel. But when you are cheating in some way, you expose yourself to ruin from even the weasels among us. That is the price you pay. When the CEO of IBM is hiring hookers... even a fucking bum with a $10 digital camera can expose you and wreck you forever. What Pac fans (and Floyd haters) don't like about this is the way Pac was exposed, and the guy who did the exposing. Which is understandable... but is no excuse to let your emotion or bias cloud your view of why the fight didn't happen.

 

Fuck them both! Thats how I feel.

 

If Floyd fights another small guy he deserves to be boycotted.

 

Not a single credible opponent has been mentioned by his camp. Is there any doubt what he is going to do? He's going to fight a small guy (Paulie, Nate) or a guy he has no business in the ring with Floyd. (Hatton)

 

Factoring in the money he'll take the path of least resistance, no doubt. It's what he does. That said, if Mosley is a no-go a guy like Senchenko is probably the best we can hope for. The welterweight division is hella shallow.

 

which of his ppv fights have you paid for?

 

I can't believe there's even mention of Campbell. The mention of Campbell alone is proof that PBF is a joke.

I want to hear someone defend even the mention of Nate Campbell as an opponent for PBF.

 

I don't understand, how is Pacman exposed exactly? Where is the tangible evidence that proves he is on PEDs?

My point of view isn't even that related to Floyd or Manny. I'd feel the same way if Floyd was fighting someone I didn't like.

Instead of going through with the fight under the same testing as every other fight he's had in his entire career, Floyd suddenly wants olympic style testing, and agrees to every single demand Pacman sets out without hesitation?

And yet it's beyond the realm of possibility that it could be a ploy to get out of the fight and make Manny look bad at the same time? ::

Let's just say, if Floyd had proven himself to be a fight anyone, anytime kind of fighter, I would feel differently. But he hasn't, he's SOMEHOW managed to barely fight a legit threat since 135. So the idea that this is a ploy to get out of fighting Manny is not absurd in the slightest, in fact it makes more sense to me than the notion that Floyd is suddenly desperate to fight the best fighter at 147, and the best fighter in the whole sport. And given the names that have been tossed around as his next opponent, well - say no more, nudge nudge, wink wink ::

 

I think it goes without saying that anyone's position on PBF's motives is speculation.

On the other hand, claims that Pacquiao uses and has used PEDs have different implications.

 

Absolutely, but at the moment, it's all speculation on both sides.

 

Who's talking about court? I'm judging Floyd based on his past history as a fighter. This isn't a criminal case. I'm not here to prove anything. I'm giving my opinion on two fighters. I believe that Floyd is avoiding top fighters and that while Manny is most likely on PEDs, it isn't a forgone conclusion.

Floyd has so far managed to avoid any top fighter currently fighting at his weightclass and regardless of reason, Pac is now added to that list. Pac meanwhile has fought just about everyone. What's the common denominator here?

I don't hate Floyd, I find him disappointing as a fighter. Why you have to be a hater/nuthugger to have differing opinions is ridiculous.

I only posted in this thread because you attributed something incorrect to my name. My opinions on this are fairly clear I think. For your sake I'll put in short.

Manny is most likely on PEDs. So far, we have nothing but supposition to back that up but it is likely. If proven, he should be banned from Boxing for life.

Floyd is avoiding top competition. Recent history and his own lack of regard for his legacy bears this out.

Boxing would benefit from better testing and I hope it is implemented. I hope Floyd continues to campaign for it but to attribute altruism to Floyds motives is very suspect in my opinion. If he pushes for it in the future then good on him.

 

I was reading some old articles regarding the rematch between Hearns and Leonard in 1989. Hearns and Steward suggested that Leonard was juicing, with Steward talking about "sources" telling him this. Steward asked for steroid testing from the NSAC but was rejected.

The NSAC basically said, we'll test to see if they're using weed or cocaine, but we don't care if they're juicing.

 

Yeah and um,.. Arum clinging to them so tightly is another good indicator that not only are they a facade, but they're in the pocket aswell, "We'll only do it if the commission tells us to!!"..

 

Good stuff. Can you scan or cite the articles?

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...w4VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BAMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7153,1803963

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...msVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=m-EDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6835,2115524

The NSAC didn't test for steroids but took urine tests for "other drugs" (probably street drugs).

:notallthere:

Interesting enough, again there was a massive penalty fee here for being over the contract weight.

 

You thought the fab four were all natural?

 

Nice. Thanks. And the penalty fee for the weight is perfect.

The second article has Leonard saying he would accept testing for steroids anytime. I wonder if anything came of that? Of course, Leonard attributed his additional bulk to extra work on the heavy bag. Umm...yeah.

 

You've missed my point entirely. The core of my post was to point out that boxing fans every day are making judgments about fighters based on what amounts to circumstancial evidence. Let's face it, with boxing every 10 minutes in the ring is followed by 10 months of off-time and negotiation. So more often than not, we are looking at what DOESN'T happen in order to form opinions.

Take Floyd. He hasn't fought the best competition as he has moved up in weight. He would of course say that the better fighters were unavailable, or wanted too much money, or were not worth his time, etc. Yet you and others (including me) concluded that he's basically a coward. There is no "evidence" of this (here we go again with "court of law" bullshit), but we look at what is happening and what people are saying and we make up our own mind.

Then when Pac begins his record-breaking, unprecedented, hall of fame ascent where he is massacring welters who walk around at 165 pounds without breathing hard... he refuses to take the only type of tests that could reveal PEDs... his camp is bandying about questions during negotiation about what the penalty would be if Pac failed the tests, and oh can we keep it secret... he then comes forward with at least 3 different, bizarre excuses about why he won't take the tests, all of which are contradicted by video or even by his own trainer... and then due to this singular issue Pac walks away from a massive $40 million dollar payday......

You draw a blank? Just can't quite come to a conclusion on that one, you are still in the "well there's no evidence and this is unprecedented" phase wherein you are not required to formulate an opinion? What is your opinion? Is Pac on PEDs? Don't say you don't know, I know you don't know for sure. Pretend it's life or death, you have to make a call, which way do you go?

And that's my point, and that's why ultimately I fault both Pac and Floyd for the mega-fight imploding, but I blame Pac MORE - because if I were in Floyd's shoes I would indeed be suspicious of Manny and would want some sort of way to eliminate that advantage (much like Hearns wanted in the second SRL fight). Was Hearns a coward, too? SRL's camp said they'd take any kind of test thrown at them.. said they'd take a test before the fight, after the fight, and after the 6th round if they wanted!!

What a contrast to Manny Pac. Yes, Hearns has more balls then Floyd any day of the week, but the PED testing thing is NOT unprecedented, and has been brought up by fighters with unquestionable records of bravery.

And finally, your original argument that Floyd purposefully agreed to all the terms of the fight quickly in order to then pull out, thus making the whole exercise about making Pac look bad..... is still absurd.

 

He managed to beat the guy who most had beating Pac in his last fight with 2 years activity.

It's not an unusual thing for certain fighters to think other fighters are on PED's because some are more suspicious than others. For example Zab wanted it when he was going to fight Shane, Tyson wanted it when he was going to fight Holyfield and now Floyd with Manny.

The fact that Manny won't get a few drops of blood taken to prove his innocence is suspicious in itself.

 

Victor Conte said Olympic style testing wouldn't even find PED's. He said there were whole teams that beat that test and it was later determined that they actually were using.