Liston's long jab bothers Vitali some but he won't get close often enough to do the damage he would need to. Liston was better than most Vitali's opponents but stylistically this is a very bad match-up for him. Vitali by late stoppage
Height = defense. I don't know why, but nobody seems to believe me when I bring this up. They always go blabbering on about reach, which isn't as important. Vitali by RTD. Liston was a quitter.
I like Liston here. He's quick enough on his feet to land, and powerful enough to change the pattern of the fight when he does. And despite what TLC says, that Oranagutan reach of his will temper the height advantage somewhat & help him in that. I see Liston by TKO stoppage in about 8.
Reach still doesn't help him with the odd punch angles. Vitali always keeps the smaller man at a distance and holds them with his arms then leans back. It's almost impossible for "short" fighters to hit him because of it. Arreola is no midget but he certainly was made to look like one. And Liston was like 6 foot flat. The biggest concern IMO is Liston's power, however, Vitali is not his brother, he can take a good shot, although he rarely does.
Right. So this fight will probably end in a draw by simultaneous quit where both have injured their shoulders, Vitali has a deep cut and Liston has a broken jaw
Areola is a fat, flat footed bum. Liston was one of the most devastating fighters of all time. It's like watching Floyd beat up Gatti and drawing conclusions about what he would have done to Jose Napoles.
You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Forrest vs Mosley is a perfect example. Shane had the longer reach aparently..
Vitali (prounced "Italy" with a "V" at the front) Would win. It's just the styles. Vitali has a great chin and will withstand the bombs of Liston..and his height and awkward style will frustrate Sonny on route to a UD or late stoppage.
So reach isn't important now? Of course height is a factor too and an equally important one, nobodies suggesting Listons gonna jab and move and keep Klit at range because his arms are longer. But one look at how easily Shane's gloves could reach Forrest versus a guy of comparable height but shorter arms like Baldomir shows that reach has to be factored in too. Its not a coincidence that most top boxers have DISPROPORTIONATELY long arms. Height & reach interact, both are important.
Not saying that reach isn't important as well. Just saying that height is AT LEAST equally important when keeping an opponent at bay..I say height has the edge in fact.
Ok we agree 100% then.artie: But the fact Liston had FREAKISHLY long arms is relevant in this fight too.
Another factor that is relevant here, which has to do with height, is that Liston would have to throw every punch about eight inches higher than he had used to do and that might take plenty of effect away from his punches
Yes but the difference is they have trained against such guys while Liston was used to fight guys of his size or usually shorter. And no, before anybody says Dempsey-Willard or Baer-Carnera, of course height alone does not protect anybody. However many Valuev's opponents have said it is difficult to place punches against him because his head is in weird place
Of course, the same result wouldve occurred if Ali was 5'9. Especially controlling the fight with the jab and straight right hand.
Thank you, Valuev is another guy, manages to win world titles despite being complete shit. And usual wins by outboxing the other guy despite the fact you'd think he'd be a destroyer.
Nobody as immobile as Klitschko can keep Liston, "at bay." He will have to stand & fight. I have my doubts as to whether he could win that battle. In point of fact, Liston might be a considered favourite over any HW in history with whom he stands & trades.
How on earth can you call Vitali immobile? His footwork looks clumsy yes, but in reality his movement is among the best ever in heavyweight. He keeps his distance extremely well and he is always in position to fire. Apart from Lennox Vitaliäs resume is hardly an outstanding one, but nothing suggests he was immobile. His footwork is unique, but then again, so was Ali's
Would actually tend to agree with this, Vitali has very effective footwork, though ungainly. But that has to be qualified by the fact that almost every opponent he's ever faced has been fat. And I mean that literally, the last in-shape guy he fought was probably Herbie fucking Hide. Liston would look like Manny Pacquiao in the foot speed department next to guys like Peter and Arreola.
Not to accuse the man of poor footwork, simply to say Liston pursued quicker men, & with success. Do you see him out-manouvering Liston? I always felt Liston's footwork was better than many credited it as being. It wasn't often he was found out-of-position (unlike his protege-cum-successor, Foreman), & that was against generally nimbler men than Klitschko. What I'm trying to convey is that I imagine Klitschko has to stand & fight this one. I can't imagine he'd really keep Liston on the outside, or box him into neutrality. Perhaps the closest fighter to Klitschko Liston ever met was Valdez, whom he destroyed. A big, strong oxe of a Heavy, but without the consistency or pure durability of Klitschko (though Valdez fought in a much deeper division than Klitschko, to be fair). It's a moderate comparison. I can't think of anyone Klitschko has faced who could be at all compared with Liston, though. It's a positively enormous leap in competition for the man, & I tend to sway away from fighters when they're making that big a leap in a fight (Lewis being Klitschko's best opponent, & the only one who could truly compare with Liston on a historical scale), with very few exceptions. I wouldn't put Klitschko in that exceptional class. He could probably reign over a better class of guys than the ones of this generation, but not, IMO, dramatically better. He's a very good fighter, who never reached greatness with his ability, IMO. I always felt it was little brother, his significant frailties aside, who always held more talent than his sibling --- though that view, once popular, has lost ground in recent years. Klitschko's a durable fighter, whose career opposition probably hasn't given that side of him its due chance to shine, but it's still a somewhat suspect leap, for mine, to give him the benefit of the doubt in a stand-up fight with any all-timer, such as Liston. Thinking about this, I imagine Liston breaks him down at some point. He's such a devastating hitter, with greater precision to his punches than other wrecking balls, such as Marciano & Foreman. I'll go for a stoppage around the sixth or seventh, in a pretty competitive fight.
It is true Liston preferred the head as a target, but he hardly wanted for a vicious body assault. Klitschko's height is to his benefit in this fight, but I don't think, all things considered, he's going to win out.
agREED. The problem is whenever folks try to talk about Vitali being among the "best ever" at something, it's hard to take it that seriously because his opposition has been awful.
