Moorer vs Jones Jr @ 175

Are you sure? I can't remember that.

 

What? :notallthere:

 

Tarver definitely does, as this is from someone who really doesn't like Antonio very much. Hell, on the basis of his triology with RJJ alone, there is an argument for rating him ABOVE RJJ, especially at 175.

MTF

 

darius - 23 title fight wins. Unified 3 titles. Best wins - Hill, Rocchigiani x2, Griffin. 2 weight champion.

Vitali - 9 title fight wins. Zero unified titles. Best wins - Gomez, Peters, Sanders.

Tarver - 3 title fight wins. 2 unified titles. Best wins: Jonesx2, Griffin, Johnson, Harding.

Tyson - 12 title fight wins. 3 Unified titles. Best wins - Old Holmes, Spinks, Ruddock, Bruno

I'd personally rank Vitali 4th of those 4 on current accomplishments and I wouldn't even entertain debate on that.

 

What!? :notallthere:

 

Yeah, there's no argument can possibly be made for ranking Tarver above Roy. Tarver above Tyson COULD be made, though I don't think I'd agree with it.

 

yes, Holyfield did knock him down as the first guy ever. Though for what I remember Mercer went down on purpose since Holy hurt him and he couldn't see the punches coming. After this fight it was widely thought that Lennox could be the first to stop Mercer but as it turned out, he didn't come close and couldn't even hurt Ray as much

 

I didn't say I'd personally make such an argument, but there is one to be made. Hell, the Ring Magazine did so only a month or so ago.

MTF :fightme:

 

You don't think so? Two wins (and arguably three in some people's opinions) over the guy is a decent starting point IMHO.

MTF

 

There's no argument to be made and "Ring" is crazy if they said that.

That's almost like ranking Ezzard Charles over Joe Louis at Heavyweight because Charles beat Louis in the only time they met.

 

Some people think Norton beat Ali three times...using the Roy-Tarver argument, Norton is the G.O.A.T. :notallthere:

 

Yes.

 

And Junior Jones is greater than Barrera, Forrest than Mosley. Etc.

Not to mention that it was pretty obvious to anyone with an impartial eye that Roy HAD been depleted by the weight loss in the first fight yet still manned out a win. Roy's wins over Toney & Hopkins coupled with the consistency of his LH reign prior to the Ruiz win put him about 2 levels above Tarver. I mean even Roy's biggest detractors would have to have him top 50 of all time and I doubt Tarver's own mother would argue for him being top 200.

 

Yeah, but Ali also beat Frazier x2, Foreman and Liston x2 (among others), with four stoppages in the five wins These are three consensus ATG heavyweights.

Jones at 175 beat Tarver once (real close MD) and lost to every other elite level LHW he fought in the last ten years, including Tarver twice (once by brutal KTFO). His best wins arguably are Woods, Hill, Harding and Griffin: hardly a who's who of LHW legends.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, of course, and I don't personally agree with this argument. But there is an argument to be made.

MTF

 

I thought this had been discussed here but I must be mistaken.

Anyway:

"An interesting decade at LHW, highlighted by major upsets in championship fights and a RING title lineage that went unbroken almost the entire ten year period, leaves us with an assortment of conundrums...when it all added up, we like Antonio Tarver for the top spot.

The Magic Man won some and lost some, but he fought everybody (often multiple times), could blame a couple of his defeats on bad luck with judges, held the ring title twice and got the better of his two chief rivals. Specifically, the fact that he owned Jones was the key factor in propelling him to numbe one, since Jones was arguably the next best candidate for the top spot in the rankings.

Tarver went 2-1 against Jones, including an earth shaking upset KO in their second fight, and he could easily have been 3-0 since the first fight was a disputed draw. Similarly, he was 1-1 against Glen Johnson, but arguably should have been 2-0. He had the final word against Harding, who he knocked out in five rounds after losing a close decision in the first fight. Tarver also beat Griffin, Reggie Johnson and Clinton Woods, which help offset two losses to Chard Dawson when he had gotten old and a one sided loss to Hopkins.

The argument in favour of Jones is that he was clearly The Man in the division from 2000-2004 and was considered P4P king for part of that time. But his losses were so disasterous and his trilogy with Tarver so clearly unsuccessful that it is hard to rank him number one. He beat the likes of Woods, Harding, Gonzalez, Telasco and Felix Trinidad, but Jones lost brutally to Tarver and Glen Johnson and was embarassed by Joe Calzaghe at age 39. Fortunately for him, at least for the sake of these rankings, his one round loss to Danny Green in December 09 took place at Cruiserweight and doesn't knock him down any additional pegs here..."

From The Ring, The 2000's, Division by Division, Ranking the Superstars of the Decade, March 2010 @ p78

Bear in mind, of course, that a page earlier the same magazine claimed that David Haye was THE cruiserweight of the decade... :laughing:, but all I said was an argument COULD be made.

This was The Ring's attempt at making it.

MTF opcorn:

 

Here is how I see it:

Roy Jones might be one of the greatest light-heavyweight champions of all time.

But if you make a list of the greatest light-heavyweights......he drops several places, very quickly.

Moorer would destroy Roy. Moorer was still conscious after taking a right hand from Foreman, so we know his chin was better than Roys. He was a big dude, and plenty fast and powerful to boot.

Nah...if Roy's dad didn't let him near man-boobs Douglas, then he ain't letting him near Moorer either.

 

Roy Jones basically went undefeated in his prime. He was nearly 36 at the time of his first loss out of the Olympics. Outside of Slappy, who in his age was grossly protected, what 36 year old fighter isn't going to lose. The argument that Jones lost to all the great LHWs is about as relevant as Joe Louis losing to Rocco Marchegiano.

 

I like Billy Conn, Archie Moore, Gene Tunney, Bob Foster, & company to also go undefeated in their primes, facing off with the likes of Jones' competition above Super-Middle. Some of it was positively atrocious.

Jones was truly a great, for mine, but he benefits no end from the era in which he fought, & the countless soft options he took up after leaving 168lbs.