Ali: "Marciano probably would have beat me"

Ali lost to Frazier, who is like Marciano except with one arm and one working eye

so Marciano should win twice the number of rounds that Frazier did

 

I personally think that Ali would have too much variety for Marciano......but it is a desperate struggle for Ali. Marciano hit everything and hurt everything he hit. In other words, you got hurt. Your arms, hips, chest, shoulders, skull, stomach, face. THE WORKS.

Ali loved to take time off in fights. If he did that vs Marciano, it meant trouble.

One thing is for sure...even if he wins...Ali ain't fighting again for 12 months.

 

Ali was hit with every left hook ever thrown at him

i think Marciano would do ok

 

modesty.

Marciano was almost beaten by an Old jersey Joe Walcott who had already been stopped by an Old Joe Louis.

The Ali of 1965-1967...would beat Marciano fairly handily.

 

Except Ali was pretty much coming off a 3.5 year layoff and wasn't the elusive dancing master he was prior to the forced exile....

 

Yeah Ali was ALMOST beaten by Henry Cooper, and probably was beat en by Doug Jones, and was ALMOST beaten by Ken Norton 2 out of 3, and ALMOST beaten by Leon Spinks, oh wait he WAS beaten by Leon Spinks......stop all this "Almost Beaten" nonsense.....

 

JJ Jeffries was coming off a 6 year lay off.....never seems to be considered a factor in his 15 round KO loss to Johnson.:boohoo::boohoo:

 

1st of All, Spinks WASN'T 6'5...He was Closer to 6'2...2nd, Spinks had PISS POOR Footwork/Mobility & a Herky Jerky Style that was Almost PAINFUL to Watch @ Times...Spinks was NEVER all that Great Defensively Either...Basically, he Couldn't have Been More UNlike Cassius Clay, so there's Absolutely NATHAN to B Guaged from the Spinks-Holmes Bouts...

Clay was CONSIDERABLY Quicker of Both Hand & Foot, More FLUID, More MOBILE & Light Years Better Defensively...The ONLY Edge REED would Give Spinks Over Clay was Power & Even That's Debateable...

Fuuuurthermore, Henry Cooper's Hook was HARDER than ANY Punch Larry Holmes had in his Arsenal...Obviously, Holmes was a MUCH Better Fighter than Cooper, but just Cause Cooper Dropped Clay that DOESN'T Mean that Holmes Would...



REED:hammert:

 

NONE of that Applies to the 1971 Version of Joe Frazier...The Frazier that Beat Ali STOPS Rocky Marciano...



REED:hammert:

 

This post has to be Irish having a weird personal joke with himself....

 

Maybe, REED.

That Joe could have beaten a lot of heavyweight champions, he was one of my all time favorites.

Remember as great as Joe was, he relied specifically on the hook, while Rocky had dynamite in both hands.

I have no idea how that would have come out, both were dropped, cut, beaten up, and came back to win.

It could have been held in a phone booth, I know that much.

 

uys

Yah, the same way he brutally floored and stopped..wait for it...Bonavena. ::If Bonavena could time and floor him then what could Marciano do? I love Frazier, always have done, but he got hurt badly and dropped by guys that did not hit nearly as hard as Marciano....Quarry, Foster, Bonavena, that Mexican guy who was so good I wont even bother finding out what his name was.....

 

ALL of the Guys U Listed were BIGGER, STRONGER Men than Marciano, as was Frazier...


REED:hammert:

 

Bob Foster was taller than Marciano. He was NOT stronger. :doh:

 

When Did Bob Foster "Badly Hurt" or "Drop" Joe Frazier???...



REED:hammert:

 

Why are you surprised? Any man stronger than Marciano must be able to hurt Joe Frazier. He hurt him with a left hook....he didn't do the chicken shuffle or anything, he just held up in his tracks for a bit. It's not like Joe could not be gotten to.

 

Joe went back to the corner after the first round and told Yank Durham, "He knocked the shit out of me!" Durham's reply was simple and famous in boxing lore, "Knock him out!"

Karl

 

Thanks Karl. I actually didnt know what the fuck I was talking about. I just took a guess and I was right.::

Seriously though, I remember reading a review of Fosters career and it was mentioned that he did rock Frazier with his left hook.

Foster was 6'4", 175 for most of his career, I just cannot see how he was "stronger than Marciano" as Reed asserts.

 

REED Misspoke...It's Even DOUBTFUL to REED that Foster was STRONGER than Marciano...Foster HIT Frazier Flush & Perhaps MILDLY Hurt him...But it's NOT like Frazier Staggered, Fell, Clinched or Any of the Sort...It's NOT Like Foster Won the Round or Anything...

EVERYBODY Hit Joe Frazier...


REED:hammert:

 

If you take a look at that first round, Foster spun Joe's head around with a step right and throw right, it was a beautiful move made by a boxing master.

Jolting Frazier with that shot was Foster's downfall as he started to trade hooks with the hooker, and was taken out suddenly, brutally, and dramatically seconds after the bell sounded to start the second round.

That was as brutal a knockout as you are bound to see with Foster falling on his leg, and it is a wonder he didn't snap it, it was much like Theismann's leg when LT ended his career.

 

Good stuff, REED.

Flush was a great description of the way Bob reached him, but I think I did have him winning the round vs. Joe, as from what I recall, Joe really started reaching him towards the end of the round.
Maybe someone can post a link of the fight on youtube as I can't as I am at work now.
I know the fight infuriated Ali who said "First he beats up my sparring partner, and now he beats up a lightheavyweight!"

 

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You can see the exchange that Stinger is referring too...they are the first backward steps Joe takes in the fight. It's a right hand towards the end of the round and Joe tries to hold, then backs up, then when his head clears after a moment, he comes forward again.

 

Thanks, bro.

REED may be correct, Joe may have won the first round, but it was hectic, and he was so much more powerful than Bobby.

Frazier sure threw a short and compact left hook, beautiful stuff there from Joe.

 

You can see Fosters toe stuck in the canvas....if his toe didn't give way, his leg would surely have broken.

 

Along w/the Ellis Fight, it's Perhaps REED's FAVORITE Frazier KO...


REED:hammert:

 

I always enjoyed the Frazier fights where he just made the other guy "do the ragdoll"....Ellis and Foster weren't even allowed to fall gracefully......not only did they get knocked out, but they contorted and flipped and bounced and rolled over and stuff....

 

No he didn't. Ali beat the shit out of Cooper and was talking to the crowd as he played with and humiliated Cooper. Then Cooper hit him with a miracle left hook; the kind of miracle punch Rahman hit Lewis with. Except Ali got up and then brutally smashed Henry around and stopped him minutes later after ripping his face apart.

The rematch was almost exactly the same, minus the Cooper hail mary punch.

Struggled my ass...

MTF

 

Oh. Okay then. Wlad Klitscho just had his way with Sam Peter, he was taking a breather when Peter hit him behind the head with the sort of miracle punch that usually on happens on a Joe Cortez show, then he stood on his foot in the 10th, but Wlad came back to mercilessly beat the shit out of Peter in the 12th and bust up his nose and eye, and have Peter wondering "who nesh who nesh he hold me".....

........you could put a different spin on Planet Earth, if you put your head to it Feebles....:laughing:

Ali was jabbing and in control. His "struggles" began when 187lb Cooper, a man with HALF the power of Marciano and with far more significant cut problems, hit him with ONE left hook.

Ali's struggles went on beyond the extension of the 1 minute break, hence the need to rip a glove.

 

Sorry mate, but all this rhetoric is exactly that- rhetoric.

The facts of the matter are that Clay battered Cooper at will for three point nine nine rounds. The only reason he didn't finish him was because he had promised his oppoents that Cooper would last into the fifth and he was pissed that his predicition, which was one of his traits at that time, had been wrong in his previous fight against Doug Jones and that he had struggled more than anticipated. Dundee can be seen in the corner, screaming at Clay to stop fucking around and to get Cooper KTFO.

Thomas Hauser described it thus:

"From the opening bell, Clay was in control. Soon Cooper was badly bloodied and hurt, fighting on courage alone. But each time the Englishman seemed ready to fall, Clay dropped his gloves and stepped back to dance. At one point, Andrew Faversham left his seat, moved as close to the ring as security allowed, and shouted to Dundee "Angelo, make him stop the funny business". But Dundee had no more control over Clay than Faversham did. Clay was determined to carry his opponent and redeem himself as a prognosticator of rounds. By round four, Cooper was apparently defenceless. Clay, meanwhile, was dancing and struggling, periodically gazing towards the crowd."

Then Cooper threw a last, desperate punch. Did that punch hurt Ali? Sure. But Ali recovered and at the start of the next round Ali came out and beat the living shit out of Cooper. Absolutely tortured him.

Robert Daley of the New York Times said:

"Clay, on dream street sixty seconds later, sprang into the centre of the ring and laced into Cooper. The first jab snapped Cooper's head back and opened the eye as a cleaver would have. There were so many punches that Cooper would not have known from whence they were coming. Cassius was grim, absolutely ruthlessly concentrated. In 2 minutes 15 seconds he nearly tore Cooper's head off his shoulders. Few men have absored such a beating in so short a time. Blood was everywhere. It now was gushing out of Cooper's wounds. Cooper was covering up as best he could. People were screaming "Stop the Fight!". At last, referee Little did stop it"

Some struggle.

MTF :laughing: