WHY PACQUIAO-FLOYD WILL NEVER HAPPEN

This fight needs 2 happen! There is just no excuse to avoid such a mega payday.

 

It's also called evidence. There is a significant amount of corroborating circumstantial evidence amassing.

Evidence isn't proof, and evidence doesn't always point in the right direction, but this 'there's no proof so lets stick our fingers in our ears say, lalala and call everyone who expresses reasonable doubt a hater' mindset is exceptionally tedious.

 

Personally I find the people who are running around claiming that Manny is DEFINATELY taking drugs far more tedious. In fact, I think it is a disgrace.

That said, if this fight doesn't happen then BOTH fighters should be shot with shit. This isn't just 'some' fight- it is THE fight to be made which would bring this sport back into the mainstream consciousness of the entire world. Nothing has come close in the years I have watched boxing, and I include Lewis-Tyson in that (and that is the closest I can think).

Personally, I think it won't happen, because both fighters and their camps are too fucking stubborn to give an inch. It's pathetic, self-defeating and absolutely infuriating.

MTF :shit:

 

The bottom line is we don't know if he's taking. And I think his opponents, and the wider boxing public who pay for his fights have a right to. Which I think supersede his rights to be assumed innocent, given the nature of the sport.

 

I'm so sick and tired of talking about it that I'm past the point of caring. The whole thing just leaves a completely sour taste in my mouth.

MTF :shit:

 

True Hut Hut chap,.. it's like, refusing to give a DNA test to clear yourself as a murder suspect,.. then the police gather enough tangental evidence to haul him in for an interview,.. and he starts spouting lies that are exposed instantly,.. he becomes the PRIME suspect,.. he CANT offer a proper explanation and wont give DNA..

Then groupies blow up hypothetical examples like this ^ and say,... " :: Oh! oh! .. now you're comparing him to someone who is suspected of murder!?, hahahaha :shit:" ... :crafty: typical political spin when it comes to groupies on the defence...

 

Just for the hell of it Please present the MOUNTAIN of evidence that Pac is juicing. Ad to the numbers. Maybe, the author of the story in the test-a-phobic article could use it for future articles.

1) Pacs head is growing is obviously front and center.

2) Pacs camp said he was afraid of needles and in reality he isn't.

3) Pac is carrying his speed and gaining stregnth and his chin is improving as he gains weight which is supposedly unprecedented.

4) Teddy says he's juicing because he turned down the money.

5) He's "Conveniently" WILLING to Take Pre-Planned Drug Tests but Flat Out REFUSES to Take RANDOM Drug Tests....

6)?

 

He's "Conveniently" WILLING to Take Pre-Planned Drug Tests but Flat Out REFUSES to Take RANDOM Drug Tests....



REED:hammert:

 

6. And the most telling "Proof" that he's roiding is because Floyd Mayweather SR says so and he's the most reliable source I know of. Er..at least that's what I think he said..............

 

There isn't a mountain of evidence. It's all circumstantial. Pac is not "definitely" on PEDs. I think a reasonable person, if they had to make a call based on the circumstantial evidence would say "he probably is".

If it wasn't for PBF/Pac falling apart because of the drug testing, I admit that I probably would be suspicious of Pac using PEDs but I would likely never give it much thought. Other top fighters may well use them, too.

It is only because Pac refused the drug testing that would have made the mega-fight happen that I have delved into this to the extent I have. For all the other circumstantial evidence, you could probably find parallels in other fights or other fighters (although the huge increase in punch output, speed, and stamina as he goes up in 30% in bodyweight might be tough). But the drug test refusal is unique. I cannot think of any other parallel at any time in boxing. Even with the Tyson/Holy thing, the fight went on. This is what really draws my attention to Manny in specific.

I think when it gets to the point that the most popular fighter in the whole sport is actually killing important fights in order to avoid testing... that starts to go too far for me. As a boxing fan who is shelling out a lot of money for PPVs, HBO, Showtime, and on and on, I think I have a right to be angry that for my money I get Pac/Clottey but I'll never get to see Pac/Floyd. I supported Manny with my hard earned dollars for a long, long, time and even wrote emails to HBO insisting they show more of him years ago. And now this is what I get? He's rich, I'm poor, and I don't get to see him fight any more meaningful opponents because they will all ask for drug tests that he won't take? He's actually going to retire, instead? That's just fucking wrong.

It's bad for boxing, and is bad for boxing fans. I want Manny to prove he's not a cheat. I want him to prove not only that, but that he can beat Floyd as well. That is what great athletes do. They prove their critics wrong, and they prove to the world that based on their talent alone, they are the best. That's why we do this boxing thing. Not to say you're the best, not to say you're the best as long as there's no decent drug testing, but to go out and prove it in the ring.

Think about it. What is the spirit behind the urine tests done by all the state commissions? The fighter must PROVE he/she is clean. No one here has any problem with that. In fact I would wager that just about everyone here has pretty strong feelings about making sure fighters can show that they aren't jacked up on chems. People's lives are potentially at stake. So now that we know scientifically that the urine tests are inadequate... we will all abandon what we were firmly behind just one minute ago? Now we are turning 180 degrees and saying we no longer believe fighters should have to PROVE they are clean? Why? How can you justify this? If the spirit of the urine tests are to prove someone is not cheating... and the only way to actually prove someone isn't cheating is random Olympic style testing... then aren't all of you required to insist Manny take these tests or completely contradict the shit out of yourselves? Or are all of you now saying that you never supported a fighter proving he was clean at all, that your support was only for urine tests? Why? Because you like urine? So you all support the urine tests not because of the principal behind it, but just because you own stock in the companies that make the testing cups? You are all a bunch of phonies.

I don't know why Manny shouldn't have to prove that he is better than Floyd when both are clean from any PEDs. Why should we take any fighters word for it with PEDs any more than we should just take their word for it as to who they can beat? So now fighters just get to say "I'm clean" and then they follow it up with saying "and I could beat Vitali Klitschko in three rounds", and we are just supposed to be happy with that?

Sorry, but for those poor, poor, innocent fighters like Manny who make tens of millions of dollars, they are sadly and tragically strapped with the heavy burden of PROVING that they follow the rules, and then PROVING they are better by winning fights. I know it's so unfair.

 

I'm pretty sure that whole post is covered by Reeds #6 contribution. Thanks for the novel.

 

This isn't what you said a few weeks ago, though. You baldly stated that "Manny is on PED's".

This is what I and several other took you to task upon and there are still others, particularly Kauki, who are repeating their position over and over and over in an attempt to pass off as fact what is, in reality, opinion.

I remain fairly confident that a hell of a lot of this is simply Floyd and Pac playing 'who has the biggest dick?' with one another in negotiations. Both fighters clearly think they are the world's best and biggest draw and behind them they have some of the biggest ego's in the entire sport. As a result, the negotiations became the sporting equivalent of two stags rutting heads. Compare this to, say, Mayweather's negotiations with Mosely, for example, who has practically begged Mayweather for a fight for years. Additionally, as a self confessed former steriod user, Shane had no bargaining power whatsoever when Mayweather eventually came calling and has bowed to the required tune.

The bottom line is that Manny has every right to tell Mayweather to fuck off, and to do so without reason. Until the rules are changed, Manny is under no more or less of an obligation to dance to Mayweather's tune than any other fighter in the world. I remain utterly unconvinced that every single sanctioning body, commission and boxing board of control are simultaniously operating a drug testing system which is as thoroughly useless as a few people are claiming. Come on- how likely is that? Are we, as 'hardcore' boxing fans, that cynical about our own sport that we believe this sort of worldwide conspiracy? That it is all about protecting monied interests? That we can run into the arms of scum like Victor Conte, arguably the least credible witness/expert in the history of witnesses/experts?

The 'Pac is on drugs' brigade have banged the drum over and over and over again about how people are waiting for a 'smoking gun' before coming to their way of thinking. For me, that simply isn't true. Certainly I am not waiting for a positive test before I believe that Pacquiao is on PED's. If the tests are changed by an authoratitive body and Manny then refuses, guilt can be presumed. Certainly for Olympic purposes, failure to adhere to the rules is as damaging as a clear failure in a test. This is correct IMHO and should apply to boxing. That is what rules are for and what sanctioning bodies are for and what organisations like the British Boxing Board of Control are for and what State Commissions are for. It is for them to regulate and to oversee and to rule, surely? If it is not, what is the point of ANY of these organisations? :dunno:

'Probably on PED's' to me indicates a greater than 50% liklihood that Manny is juicing. Even when considering all of this 'circumstantial evidence', I still don't think that there is a 50% or greater liklihood of Pac juicing. You also have, in my opinion, to factor into an analysis the gravity of the charge you are considering. This is about the most serious thing you can accuse a fighter of and a guilty verdict effectively ends/writes off a career.

In short- is the 'circumstantial evidence' strong enough as to put an asterix against one of the most successful boxers of all time?

For me, it still isn't. In my opinion, based simply on what I know from that which I have read, the odds look more like 20%-30%. This is why I have said that it is 'possible' that Manny is taking PED's. And, of course, it is.

The rest of your post is something I broadly agree with.

MTF