Bernard Hopkins vs Rocky Marciano at Cruiserweight

LOL at your attempts to belittle me by comparing me to Kid Dynamite.

Everytime someone disagrees with you it's because they are "shilling for their favourites". Could it not just be that they...well....disagree with you?

 

It's not about being a fan, per se.

I was a big Trinidd fan but knew his limitations. I'm a die hard Tyson fan (more of a Tyson fan than Kid Dynamite) but I know his limitations also.

I admire Hopkins' abilities imply because I respect his abilities and see him for what he is: one of the smartest and best fighters to ever lace'em up. I'm not a fan of bernard's personality. I don't know the man.

Short squat, slow old man beating Marciano isn't stopping a tall smart tough fit fighter in Bernard's class.

 

Nope. Lots of people disagree with me...including folks whose opinions I have a lot of respect for and I don't think they are all biased. But on the other hand, there are some folks who are so biased for or against certain fighters that it leaks out into any discussion. It's not very interesting to discuss the sport with people who can't (or won't) see the truth about certain fighters.

So that's a swing and miss for you there.

 

It is funny when you try to dispute how obviously biased you are.

Super Liquid Metal Hopkins 3000 (the one you want him to be) would be more than a match for Marciano, however...the real Hopkins wouldn't be. Sorry.

 

Aren't you the same person that criticized me for calling Duran, William Wallace?

Anyway...we'll just have to agree to disagree. no need to get "pissy" or disrespectful about it. You think Marciano would stop Hopkins...i just think you're opinion is based upon NOTHING.

 

Well it's based on the way Tyson dealt with Spinks, Frazier dealt with Foster, and Marciano dealt with Moore & Charles, who we've already established Broadway Joe regards as superior fighters to Hopkins. All those guys had stellar chins below heavyweight.

You might not agree with his pick but it's hardly based on nothing.

 

yeah but...

Tyson was much bigger than Marciano was. MUCH BIGGER. Approx 40lbs difference. Tyson was also faster and more explosive. tyson would KO guys that weighed 240 lbs (Bruno for example). Therefore not fair in the comparison with tiny Marciano. My position on this matchup is largely based upon the FACT that Marciano was a small heavyweight whose best wins were against ancient heavyweights or blown up Lightheavyweights who were also borderline ancient when he met them. Neither Walcott, Moore, Louis or Charles were particularly elusive at the time when marciano fought them.

Anyway....Frazier vs Foster. Foster had already been knocked out twice by the time he got to Frazier. The guys that knocked him out weighed about 180 pounds or so and so were not bonafide heavyweights either. MY POINT IS....Hopkins hasn't yet been knocked out...or even close to being knocked out.

Moore and Charles had both been stopped before Marciano got to them. Also they were older when they fought Rocky and both went to war with him.

So...not totally relevant to this discussion for these reasons....

 

A pasti-it Hopkins more elusive than a past-it Walcott (who did find some vintage form for that one night)? Hopkins is a smart, patient, defensively-sound fighter, but his movement is more predictable than Walcott's. Charles' too, for that matter. Yes, those fellows were past-it, but so is Hopkins by the time he reaches 180lbs. in weight.

I don't know. I can't really see Hopkins winning, but that's me. It's not as though Marciano would need to lay much leather on him to lay him out.

 

Thanks. No matter how much Sly tries to pretend it's not true, there are plenty of examples of fighters who were never KOed at one weight but were, and sometimes with ease, at higher weights. It's not that hard to understand, unless you REALLY don't want to.

And when presented with info that he really can't refute, he either provides a long-winded arguement that doesn't really prove his point but he that hopes will wear folks down with the sheer number of words or he will just dismiss it out of hand...both of which I guess are easier than actually knowing stuff.

And to be honest, this topic is long past being interesting because, as expected, it has turned into another one of Sly's love letters to Hopkins. Ugh. I can't waste any more time here.

 

exactly

 

True...but name ONE.

There are also examples of fighters that were never KOed at the lower weights and guess what...weren't KOed at the higher weights either:

James Toney for example, and Toney is a naturally smaller man than Bernard Hopkins. Evander Holyfield is another guy who carried his chin with him.

Pacquiao carried the same chin from 126lbs to 147lbs.

the list continues.

your point would only be valid if you had NO examples of this. But I've just named three without even thinking.

As I said before..Hopkins has never been stopped and never shown anything other than a solid chin. Secondly...Marciano wouldn't be significantly bigger than Hopkins who started his career at Cruiserweight and was always a HUGE middleweight...and proved to be natural at lightheavyweight in fights with Tarver, Pavlik and Calzaghe.

Hopkins also wouldn't fight a war with Marciano...rather he's a smart and cagey fighter who has great boxing skills when the situation demands them.

Hopkins has an 8 inch reach advantage over Marciano and 3 inches in height and is rangier and taller than Ezzard Charles and is also harder to hit.

So I've given examples of fighters carrying their chins with them. We all know that Bernard has never been seriously hurt or stopped. We know that Marciano was only 185lbs and Bernard fights well weighing 180lbs on fight night. Bernard has proven to be elusive and clever in the ring.

There is more evidence supporting my position that marciano will not stop Hopkins that your position.

Your position is still based upon NOTHING.

 

What is an enormous difference is the power Marciano can generate next to anything Hopkins has ever been hit by. The gulf is phenomenal.

Who is Hopkins' hardest-hitting opponent? They're not even close to Marciano --- there's really nothing to suggest Hopkins can take his punch. Similarly, if Marciano could find even older versions of Walcott & Charles with that punch, he could find the also-aged version of Hopkins who fought at Light-Heavy.

 

Yawn. You have proven NOTHING yet again. First of all I NEVER said there were no examples of fighters moving up and not being KOed...so don't try to put words in my mouth. And you may want to drop by BoxRec for another visit...because Holyfield was KOed at heavy. And Manny HAS been KOed at the lower weight. As usual...you try to set up a scenario that favors you, but the TRUTH is that Manny has been stopped at lower weights in his career. And none of the fighters that Manny has faced recently is the kind of puncher Marciano was. And let's not even get into what the fighters you mentioned may be putting into their bodies to facilitate their moves up in weight.

And neither Pavlik or Calzaghe were real Lightheavies, and neither was Hopkins..who was a career Middleweight who only moved up when he lost his title and couldn't regain it against the less than legendary Jermaine Taylor. Beating Pavlik and Calzaghe sheds absolutely no light on how Hopkins would do against Marciano. Calzaghe was a busy fighter, but also a barely average puncher at 168 who slapped more than he punched solidly...and moving up a class didn't improve his power any. Career Middleweight Pavlik has little with common in with Marciano outside of being an aggressive fighter. And beating a lethargic Tarver...who also had zero in common with Marciano...also means nothing when considering a Maricano-Hopkins fight. Tarver had pretty good power, but it only surfaced some of the time...and he's certainly no Marciano when it came to punching power..and he fought nothing like Marciano. There is NOT ONE fighter on Hopkins' resume that remotely resembles a prime Marciano. Again..NOT ONE.

So it appears once again that YOUR arguments are the ones based on nothing but your personal bias for Hopkins.

 

I disagree. Morrade Hakkar bears a very slight resemblance to Marciano.

 

:bears:

That is more compelling evidence for Hopkins' chances against Marciano than anything Sly has posted so far.

 

Yup..because broadwayjoe says so. :bears:

 

It's about time you figured that out. There may be hope for you yet. On second thought...nah...before we know it you will be blathering on endlessly in support of your Hopkins man-crush.