Who is the welterweight champion now?

Sly's right.

Floyd was left with the WBC after beating Baldomir and Judah for the undisputed title....Berto won the WBC belt.

Therefore Berto has more claim than Shane or Pacquiao if anything...

 

His cheating is not directly relevant to the topic at hand, because:

1. It happened years ago
2. It didn't make his performance any better
3. He lost to Cotto anyway, whether or not he was on steriods at the time (and there is no reason to presume he was)

MTF

 

Wanted: Welterweight Champeen....must be prepared to come down to 145 at a moments notice to fight former flyweights. Cannot guarantee Champion status even if you win. Mayweathers Terms and Conditions Apply.

 

Berto Picked Floyd's Vacated WBC Title, NOT Floyd's Vacated Lineal Title...Historically, when the Lineal Title is Vacated, the Top 2 Guys Fight for it...Cotto & Margarito were CLEARLY the 2 Highest Rated Welters, so their Bout was for the Lineal Title...Berto WASN'T Even a Top 5 Welter when he Picked Up the WBC Title...

Margarito Beat Cotto, Shane Beat Margarito, so Shane is the Lineal Champion....



REED:hammert:

 

bertos best win, he scraped past a guy mosley dominated.

 

sly isn't interested in the details...

 

shut up

 

There is no lineal title right now...it's very grey. Shane has no more claim than berto...even considering the pretty good case made by Reed.

The winnner of Mayweather-Mosley is the champ..and then Pacquiao has to beat that person to be considered the champ.

 

Look, REED DOESN'T Whole-Heartedly Subscribe to the "Lineal" Argument Either, Brother Sly...But there's NO DOUBT that Cotto & Margarito were the 2 BEST, 2 HIGHEST Rated Welters when they Fought...

By Beating Cotto, Margarito was Regarded as THE MAN by Everybody (Including REED, who Certainly DOESN'T Need to Elaborate on his Feelings about the Dude::)...By Beating Margarito, Sugar Shane Became THE MAN...So UNTIL Shane is BEATEN or RETIRES, it's Only FAIR to Regard him as THE MAN, Since he BEAT THE MAN...

U've GOTTA Respect Sugar Shane's Claim MORE than Berto's, Brother Sly...C'mon, Homey...


REED:kidcool:

 

Makes sense. agREED.

 

sly will forever give shane zero claim to the lineal title, even should he beat floyd...

 

If Shane beats Floyd I'll eat crow and give him all the credit...

 

I think you're pretty safe there.....

 

Which tells you everything you need to know about 145 or 147 or whatever you guys are calling it these days.

 

I thought because you didn't refute my first post you agreed with what I said.



The WBC is = to the WBA, IBF, WBO of whatever you want to call it. Anybody who follows boxing knows that alphabet titles are now irrelevant in the grand scheme.

Floyd was the undisputed champion (despite not beating the best opposition, but that's boxing) but HE RETIRED. In this situation the public decided that Margarito and Cotto would be for the 'Championship' because they were the two best contenders at the time. Margarito won and Mosley beat him.

Mosley is the champ, even though he's now the 3rd best fighter in the division. Floyd will school him and Pacquiao would retire him.

The vacant title fight between Berto and whoever was effectively meaningless when determining the elite in this division.

 

We don't know that.

Mosley's power and stamina were key in the fight. He visibly moved De La Hoya with the first left hook he landed, in the first round. He hurt De La Hoya with a looping right hand in the 9th round, and also later with bodyshots. Mosley's stamina was important as he swept the final 4 rounds on all the judges' scorecards I believe.

We can always chalk it up to DLH having a tendency to fade in the latter rounds but we can't dismiss EPO in aiding Mosley's late round surge.

Furthermore, everyone says "Mosley looked bad in the De La Hoya rematch". He's damn near always looked bad at 154, which the rematch against a shot Vargas being an exception. De La Hoya also fought a much smarter fight in the rematch, boxing at range, using his jab, rather than just coming forward like he did in the first fight, and getting into the exchanges where Mosley excels.

 

excellent post
I once read on this very site, a couple of posters claiming that Mosley poor performance in Oscar II compared to his performance in Oscar 1 was because he took PED:doh::doh:

 

Okay, so let's break it on down, what we got here is a guy who did do steroids, a guy who might do steroids and used to be a flyweight, a welterweight who beats up former featherweights, a guy who cheats with his wraps, and a guy who wasn't even top 5 when he won not just the welter title, but the most preee-steegious one at that, and barely did any better with Collazo than confirmed non-welter sensation Richard Hatton.

Yup. Heavyweight is messed up.

 

Fine. I'm not really interested in arguing the point too much.

The point I am interested in arguing is the insane position taken my Azael, who has not only compared Pacquiao (who has never failed a drugs test) to Mosely (who lied to a Grand Jury before admitting his guilt on taking drugs) but has then gone on to say that Mosely's cheating is WORSE than Margacheato, who used plaster of paris to solidify his wraps to allow him to better CLUB his fists into the head and face of an unsspecting opponent.

Yeah, right...

If Mosely was cheating when he faced Cotto, and it seems unlikely that a former cheat would risk trying to cheat again, it didn't help him much because he lost. If Margacheato was cheating against Cotto, and it seems likely that he was because Cotto was considered a MUCH harder fight for him at the time and people were SHOCKED at just how shaken and battered Cotto was by the end of that fight, it is VERY important because he won and took the title from Cotto in doing so.

It matters more still when you consider just how AWFUL Tony looked without his magic handwraps in getting the shit kicked out of him by Mosely.

No?

MTF :dunno:

 

Well although it may sound weird to hate one guy for cheating and not another who cheats, I agree. With PEDs I'm kind of like "that's messed up, but I sort of expect the majority of athletes to be on some form of them". With Margarito, I went from liking him to detesting his guts. Some people have the mentality of "a cheat is a cheat and treat them all the same" but I really put Margarito on a lower level than other cheats.

I think logically, it's very difficult to believe that Margarito never loaded his gloves before. I'm not sure about Cotto. You'd think that Margarito would load up when he's fighting an undefeated champ who's the favorite, if he does for an aging 3-1 underdog. There might be more to it though. From what I've heard, Dean Lohuis (the head of the CSAC when Margarito fought Mosley) was much less strict in the way he had his inspectors inspect the fighters. Armando Garcia used to send two inspectors to the fighters locker room and was stricter all around, he even fired inspectors for getting autographs from fighters because he thought it could arouse suspicion that they were biased/on the take. Lohuis just sent one inspector who was basically out to lunch when Margarito did his wraps and it took Richardson to catch their antics. Word could've gotten around about Lohuis's incompetence (he's gone now) and Margarito/Capetillo decided to cheat then. Maybe they've been doing it on and off for years, just depending on the commissions and what they had heard regarding the strictness of the inspections. :dunno:

I don't know about Nevada, but of course they did damage control for Margarito-Cotto after Margarito got busted.