Why doesn't Calzaghe get any love?

This description should be in the dictionary under Calzaghe, Joe

 

a lot of the fighters also picked roy to win.

 

calzaghe wouldve froze like all the rest of the guys who fought a prime Jones Jr. does anyone think he'd be slapping away indiscriminately and taking hard counter hooks from jones jr?

 

Absolutely not

 

Whatever heals the pain, whatever heals the pain. This is another post-traumatic group therapy session,..The White-European enemy, can now sit back, and laugh as he left one of the world's most hated countries, bawling thier fucking eyes out.

 

this thread is in contrast w/ the thread 'consistently unlucky fighters'.

calzaghe, for the most part was extremely fortunate that he didn't face any elite fighters during his reign but was good enough to dominate the division against anyone else. plus, he was extremely lucky that hopkins and roy were still around to provide him his retirement funds.

 

Calzaghe was a good fighter who may have turned out to be great. But he chose his bank account and a no risk approach. When I see people listing him in their top 20 p4p of all time, it shows me how easily influenced and plain dumb some people are

 

eXACTLY, kind of like poor Floyd, who everyone at WW was ducking

 

I just can't work out,.. when you've got two notoriously difficult fighters like Hopkins and Jones,.. how it's Calzaghe's fault, that neither wanted anything to do with him,.. it has been irrefuteably exposed that Hopkins bitched the fuck out of a fight against him in 2002,.. and when Roy was persuing Calzaghe for a fight that eventually happenned, Joe got pissed off with him and stated "Years ago he didn't want to know my name, now he wants to be my neighbour" ,.. to which Roy replied,..

“I saw Joe as a potential opponent a long time ago,†Jones said. “But I had my eyes on higher things, such as winning the heavyweight title, so it was nothing against Joe, I love everything about him. He’s a fun guy, an entertaining guy, a good person. We took some pictures together with his sons after the fight on Saturday and we’ve talked on the phone. But boxing is business. When I was the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world it wouldn’t have been smart for me to go and fight Joe.

â€You don’t go to somebody else when you’re the best, they must come to you, so I wouldn’t take the risk, and why would I? Why would I meet that challenge when I’m already the best? Why would I go to your country and give you a chance to allow the powers that be to take a close decision and give it to you?"

Right, so Roy was really CHASING HIM DOWN,.. Calzaghe was ducking him,...:notallthere:

So in the end you've got a 'prime' Hopkins... whenever the fuck his prime was supposed to be?? who bitched out, I repeat,.. BITCHED OUT,.... and then you've got Roy who said that Calzaghe was never in his plans,...

So,.. how's it primarily his fault for those fights never happening?

 

It's not primarily his fault. The blame is shared. However, it is sort of an unwritten rule in boxing that when you are the guy with everything to prove, you need to aggressively pursue big fights. You cannot sit safely in your bubble boy world (Wales) and expect the best in the world, future hall of famers to come to your podunk town where their cell phones don't even work and try to use their TomTom to find your home without driving off a cliff or hitting a herd of sheep.

Like it or not, when you don't have much to offer in the way of notoriety or money, you are not a priority for the guys sitting on the top. Joe needed to pursue those fights when they were meaningful, and he needed to compromise on every last detail to get them. If he really believed he could win (which he didn't), then he needed to come to the fucking press conferences like Tarver did to RJJ and push for the fight. Because a victory over a prime Hopkins or RJJ would have immediately put Joe into the driver's seat, and then he can go back to Wales and start beckoning. Otherwise he's just another island-dweller with 65 victories against locals named Doogle McGoogle.

It was YEARS, literally almost a DECADE that people on the board and its predecessors mocked Calzaghe for lack of competition. He went better than 13 years as a pro without ONE meaningful fight, in a time where some very meaningful fights were available. It is disgraceful. I have said this before and I will repeat it even though I know many here will disagree: Joe fucked himself over, and should regret it the rest of his life, because there is a marginal chance he could have beaten Hopkins or Jones when it mattered. Very unlikely in my book, but certainly possible, and Joe needed to relentlessly pursue fights like that. Can you imagine the impact of a victory over RJJ in 2002 instead of a TKO over Tocker Pudwill?

That is Calzaghe's legacy.

 

I think there is a double standard about 'sitting on mandatories in one division for years' when it comes to Calzaghe and Hopkins,.. Hopkins has done all his....'best stuff' very late in his career.. and that's after the so called 'masterful brilliant boxer' couldn't beat Jermaine Taylor over the course of 24 rounds,..You know the way it is,.. if the Klitschko's pulled up 'star' lightheavyweights, and beat them,.. they wouldn't be immuned the way Fraud and Hopkins are, but I would bet, that when glossing over thier resumes these 'big names' in time, would be mentioned as one of thier very best achievements,..this 'p4p4p4p4p4p4p4p' shit has become a disease, I also can't agree with Calzaghe having to fold to every single low-ball demand Hopkins suddenly initiates once terms were originally agreed upon,.. and when that fell through thanks to Hopkins, Calzaghe is then obligated to get on an Aeroplane, fly accross the world, and stalk both of them into futility,..I'd have thought that contacting them and being rejected would have been a firm enough answer about his chances to get them in the ring, and he'd have been met with the same groupie attitude that accompanies every top fighter from forums to American sportswriters,.. "Who is he!... how dare he!.. Hopkins is a legend!" ... if Hopkins and Roy have thier plans to target specific others, they will do precisely that,.. and by thier own admission,.. that is what they did.

 

"a man who desires to lick clean, the ass of the man behind the Cdogg internet alias"

This description should be in the dictionary under broadway, Joe

 

Calzaghe was a VERY good fighter. But I think it was pretty clear by what a 43 year old B/Hop did to him early that he wasn't quite on Hopkins/Jones' level. I think he took his potential as far as he could have.

 

Oh, okay then. We'll ignore the published, eye witness testimony of a man who put the money on the table to make the fight happen and instead rely upon heresay and internet messageboard posts based on dislike.

That makes sense...

MTF :notallthere:

 

Bear in mind that Calzaghe was no spring chicken himself in the Hopkins fight. He was what, 35? 36?

MTF :dunno:

 

"When I was the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world it wouldn’t have been smart for me to go and fight Joe. You don’t go to somebody else when you’re the best, they must come to you, so I wouldn’t take the risk, and why would I? Why would I meet that challenge when I’m already the best? Why would I go to your country and give you a chance to allow the powers that be to take a close decision and give it to you?"

REED - my criticism of Reluctant Roy's complacent 'why should I?' attitude, straight out the horses mouth. ZERO interest in pursuing career defining fights from 94-03 by his own admission.

 

I disagree, I think he was definitely on Hopkins level. I don't think he could have beaten prime Jones but I do believe he could have pushed Roy somewhat. However, with regards to Hopkins, most of what Calzaghe does is not built around a fight plan, it's more improvised in the ring. Hopkins gave him trouble in the first 3 rounds, but then once Calzaghe figured him out he pretty much dominated the fight from then on. It wouldn't make a difference whether he was fighting a young Hopkins or the version he did end up fighting, he would have eventually figured him out and beaten him in my opinion.

 

Nice...

MTF :cheer:

 

Also, in no way was Hopkins reign at 160 any better than Joes reign at 168.

 

Yeah but guys age at different rates as we've established. I think Joe was a better fighter at that point than he was in say 99-00. Certainly he still had all his speed and stamina intact, which can't be said for B-Hop. No doubt in my mind Hopkins of say 00-03 beats any version of Calzaghe, not easily, but clearly.

 

That is how I see it too.

Calzaghe-Jones would have been a very, very good fight and Joe would have made Jones WORK but he would have likely lost a clear UD.

A Hopkins-Calzaghe fight in 2002 would have panned out exactly as you describe it IMHO. And Hopkins knew this himself, which is why he ran the fuck away until he had nowehere left to run if he wanted to make a few more $$$millions...

MTF

 

Yes it was. Not by a huge screaming distance, but it definitely was.

 

If you had Calzaghe 'dominating' that fight we watched different fights. Calzaghe's wore Hopkins down with his shear workrate which at that point Hopkins couldn't hang with, but at no point was Joe 'dominating'. When I watched it live I actually had it to Hopkins by a point or even if I remember right. Calzaghe's work rate might have eeked out a fair decision but Hopkins was landing the cleaner punches for most of the rounds and if he'd been young enough to maintain a higher pace he would have won most of the rounds Calzaghe messily ground out, IMO.

 

It's difficult to tell, really, because Calzaghe (sadly) didn't really fight anyone at that time that might be a useful barometre.

It is, however, rare for a fighter to be better at 35 than at 25. It happens, of course, but it is rare. The Calzaghe who beat Starie (underrated) and Eubanks (shot but still better than some of the shit Calzaghe fought) was a very good fighter also.

Besides, people talk about Joe fighting mandatory after mandatory but let's not pretend that Hopkins had an exactly glittering middleweight reign. After Tito (blown up welterweight) and Oscar (blown up former lightweight champion and who took a dive), where are the stellar names on Hopkins' record? Glen Johnson? He lost to Clinton Woods :: Antwun Echols? William Joppy? He arguably lost to Howard Eastman, who lost to Hopkins also. After this collection of half decent blokes there is a collection of mismatched garbage Calzaghe would have been proud of.

Hopkins LOST to arguably the first 'proper', top level middleweight he fought in about TEN years when he fought and lost to Taylor. A man who lost his title very soon after to Pavlik and has been sparked into retirement by limited, gutsy plodders like Carl Froch. Before that, he lost to RJJ, arguably the LAST 'proper', top level middleweight he fought.

There are two sides to this one. I'm not saying Hopkins isn't GREAT, because he is, but to suggest that he was fighting great fighters whilst Joe has been hiding out in Wales is bogus. The only difference is that Hopkins was getting mainstream US coverage. Calzaghe wasn't.

MTF

 

I agree with everything you say. I would say Calzaghe & Hopkins are BOTH examples of guys better at 35 than 25 though. Lennox Lewis another one. Re: the resumes you can almost always makes the hue move a couple shades in the direction you like comparing any fighters. Suppose I think Hopkins was just better full stop. MASSIVELY better technically, with Calzaghe making up allot of that difference with natural ability and fitness but not all of it. Rather than me constructing an argument, most of which Im sure a chap of your intelligence would anticipate in advance I'll just suggest we agree to disagree. But one point still seems particularly salient to me and bears repeating: Hopkins was 43 when he fought Calzaghe and fought on just about even terms and dominated early before he tired. For my money that tells the story.

 

But it's whether you believe that Calzaghe took over because Hopkins just tired, or whether you put it down to Calzaghes ability to adjust

 

The only problem with this being it was a well-documented fact that Bernard pulled out of this fight - more specifically the three-fight deal he had negotiated with Showtime.

I never saw the case for Joe legitimately pursuing a fight with Roy, but he was in fact up for the Hopkins fight, and Bernard was on board and ready to put ink to paper with Showtime, before abruptly walking on the deal.

Afterwards, it came out - at least out of Bernard's mouth - that he did what he did at the time just to stick it to King. He wanted to fight out the remainder of his contract without letting King get rich off of him, which is why he took the shit fights he did ($750K for the Hakkar fight and $300K for Joppy) before becoming a free agent and getting paid.

 

Yeah, and then all of a sudden, the incredible Hops, "fights with reknewed energy!!!!" against Pavlik, in what was in his own words, "The best performance of my career" ,.. ,... it kills Hopkins groupies everytime he can't beat one style, then cautiously selects a style he feels he can beat, and he does, and he wins well,.. they're forced to stutter,.. He was passed his prime he wa...... um,.. well,.. imagine a prime Hops! he musta bin unbeatable!!! if he can do this at this age, ...a prime Hops! A prime Hops!..

Just wait till he gets beat again,.. the 'he lost coz he old' brigade will come back to rescue him for the 4th time..

 

Look Kaukip, the guys 44 fucking years old. If he's fighting somebody who's punch output he's able to reduce to an absolute snails pace he's still a fantastic fighter. And he's very good at doing that. If he's against a guy he isn't able to do that against, like Joe he's gonna look OLD. And while in part that'll just happen against better fighters, it isn't reducible to that, a volume puncher like Calzaghe is the type of guy best placed to take advantage of Hopkins' age, above and beyond him (probably) being better than Tarver, Wright & Pavlik. And if you're seriously suggesting he's still prime going into his mid 40s or that he couldn't hack a faster pace against a volume guy like Joe 10 years ago then your hatred is severely warping your mind.

 

convenient that you choose to forget the pitifull glen Johnson incident, where joe was so scared to fight him, that he made up injuries after injuries