Haye vs Ruiz Preview by Chris Baldwin

Haye is vulnerable. But he's getting the job done. I don't think he beats either Klit or is the future of the division, my original point was just that he's plainly better than Byrd or Oquendo. We're talking about an undisputed cruiserweight, those guys were C+ class fighters.

 

I think he should fight either the winner of Arreola/Adamek or Tua next. Either Klit takes him out.

 

there is no way haye goes in there with tua. far too much risk.

 

The distance they travel is irrelevant. I'm talking about the velocity, the speed they travel at, not their total travel time.

I work with motion graphics every day. I can tell the difference between 60 and 100 frames a second, shit I can tell the difference between 40 and 50 frames a second. That's one of the reasons I always have such a clear cut opinion on handspeed etc.

Partly due to my work, I have an excellent eye for the actual velocity of movement.

 

Id agree with that, certainly. Haye is like Hamed - a very quick, unpredictable counter puncher. He can't throw combos for shit without getting sloppy and loose.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/mar/22/david-haye-wladimir-klitschko-boxing
Until the final 15 seconds of his sham participation in what was supposed to be a challenge for Wladimir Klitschko's collection of world heavyweight titles, I was of the view boxing should make an example of Eddie Chambers and withhold his purse.
There have been too many of these passive efforts in world heavyweight title fights in recent years, a lot of them featuring the Klitschkos. No wonder the Americans won't watch them.
Well, there was one American with a very good view of the action in Düsseldorf on Saturday night and he completely wasted the journey. "Fast" Eddie, he calls himself. Minnesota Fats would have thrown more punches.
He was round, cumbersome, unambitious and spent most of the night with his gloves around his ears and retreating towards the ropes, where he ducked under Klitschko's long-range, safety-first head shots. His most memorable act of aggression was to lift the champion off the canvas on his shoulders in round one.
Once he'd been tagged in round two, saved from a knockout there and then only by Klitschko's in-built caution, he ran like a rabbit, poking out the odd limp right hand to the body and pathetically waving Wlad forward.
Lennox Lewis used to cop flak for boxing like Klitschko, but he was a virtual windmill compared to the crane from Kiev. Klitschko should have been back in the showers after 10 minutes but he couldn't finish Chambers off.
Actually he could have. He just couldn't be bothered. Wlad was happy to poke out that telegraph pole of a left jab and keep his own right hand up to look after his dodgy chin.
You could compare this fight to David Haye's hit-and-run effort to bamboozle Nikolai Valuev in Nuremberg last November, because of the disparity in size, reach and height – but the Londoner actually won the rounds against a freak of an opponent with a brilliant if eccentric strategy. Chambers's only plan was not to get hurt. At no point in the "fight" did he try to win a round or even a single exchange.
It was one of the easiest fights of Klitschko's 57-fight career and probably one of the worst, although there are plenty of candidates on that list. Even his adoring German public must have been bored by this.
I'm coming round to the view that Haye will knock Klitschko out if they ever meet. The Ukrainian never does anything different. Jab, right cross and occasionally a left hook – that's it. The rest of the time he stands off, waiting to counter, legs spread for power but not mobility. If a fast puncher – and Haye is probably the fastest in the division – goes over the top of Wlad's jab, which dips after he throws it, the Klitschko chin and his titles are there for the taking.
The more of these fights the authorities allow – and there were representatives of three ruling bodies there, the IBF, WBO and IBO, as well as the man from The Ring – the more damage they allow to be inflicted on the sport. As long as they get their flights and fancy hotels paid for, they couldn't care less.
The end when it came was merciful relief for those of us foolish enough to expect some action. With about 15 seconds left, Wlad impaled Eddie on the end of a cracking left hook to the temple and left him in a heap, hanging over the ropes and seriously out of it.
Fast Eddie took his licks, then. So, let him keep his money. But we should never be tempted to watch such a poor world title fight again

************************

Translation: We want a Black Heavyweight Champion, as we are distinctly uncomfortable with anything else, especially a guy we cannot use as vessel for our Jingoistic sentiments. We actually think a 38 year old guy who was being punched in the back of the head was a more legitimate opponent.

 

that's how I see it too, Haye's combos aren't good at all, but his straigh rignt ( well he kind of loop it but still ) is deadly and very quick. not many hw, certainly not in this bitch era, could have taken it for so long.

 

he does remind me of a heavyweight hamed. good call. except without the power.

 

Byrd would have been a fantastic cruiser.

 

No, the distance they travel is very relevant. A short punch will take less time or frames to travel it's distance. But that doesn't mean it's moving faster just that it takes less time, and being able to punch from longer range has obvious advantages in terms of the versatility and unpredictability of the arsenal.

In single punches counter Haye is faster than Povetkin. Though I said in the previous post he can't combo punch for shit.

 

The speed of Hamed's punches were also overrated. He had a speedy, potshotting style with gave the illusion of speed, plus throwing punches from odd angles etc also added to the illusion.

I'll say one thing about Hamed, his punches had quick startup time. His left cross wasn't telegraphed, the startup was quick, the actual velocity was nothing special, not even close to true speedsters.

Haye is by no means slow, but his speed isn't exceptional for a heavyweight. Not only are most of his punches telegraphed, but his power shots are only marginally above average, speed wise.

Prime Wlad had faster hooks and a faster right cross, and he is fucking huge.

 

Power looks pretty comparable to me. Of course what made Hamed unique is that THAT type of ability to hurt guys is rare at feather.

 

Nicky Piper: "John Ruiz is a good boxer with very fast hands" :shit:

Johnny Nelson: " David had not sparred for 4 weeks" :shit:

Nicky Piper "He showed great fitness too" :shit:

 

Wlad-Haye would be a terrible fight btw. Both guys would be extremely cautious. Wlad would come forwards very slowly while Haye would back up. Wlad would never throw anything but the jab while Haye wouldn't throw anything at all. Vitali-Haye could be cool but Haye could not win

 

::

The distance they travel is completely different to the velocity, they are 2 seperate things hut hut.

My point was, you said to me, Haye's punches travel a larger distance, as in I have to take that into account.

My point is simple - I'm not benchmarking the distance, I'm looking at the actual velocity of the punch.

A 1 inch punch could be much slower than a punch travelling 2 feet and yet land first, this is basic primary school physics.

My point is I'm not actually taking the distance into account (even though it's important obviously) - I'm judging the speed purely on velocity, and on velocity, Povetkin's punches are faster.

 

Haye's IN RING practical speed, ie his ability to land unpredictable punches that guys don't see is impressive. Just like a young Hamed. Thinking fast, 'start up speed', being consistently in positions to surprise opponents and catch them before they can react etc is part of this, not something apart.

 

"The Doors Will Be Open To America For David". :shit:

Nicky Piper: " He can be the next Mike Tyson" :shit:

 

Nicky Piper: " He can be the next Mike Tyson" :shit:[/QUOTE]

:laughing:

 

Agree on Wlad-Haye, but I think Haye would have a better chance vs Vitaly than vs Wlad. Sure Vitaly doesn't have the galss jaw so he wouldn't be starched with one punch, but I think haye movement and dodge would trouble him a lot, especially since he looks like he's getting slower

 

He is catching slow guys who are plodding in. Ruiz just walked in, straight into the mouth of the cannon, from the very first moment.

With Vitali, there wont be any of that.

 

:laughing:[/quote]

He actually fucking said that.

Ian Darke "At times in there tonight, Haye has looked like a million dollars"

 

I agree it might be difficult for Vitali to catch Haye cleanly but his output should win him every round. I can't see Haye hurting him, both because Vitali's chin is good and because he keeps his distance very well, meaning he wouldn't run into counter shots, which are Haye's big weapon. If he has to reach to land, he is not effective

 

speed = distance/time, mate. And the birds go tweet. Don't insult my intelligence, either read my post again or lets agree to disagree, since our SUBJECTIVE judgement on what we're seeing is clearly different.

Povetkin's speed never surprised anyone. He's just a good, tight punching, quick handed combo puncher. He's Jonny Tapia, Haye is Hamed, maybe you thought Tapia was faster but we'd have to just agree to disagree on that too since we're clearly working on different semantic ground.

 

I think towards the end of the 4th, maybe a round or two later, Haye's right hand actually get's caught in Ruiz glove, thats how slow David was to pull it back.

 

Agree 100%. Vitali would monster him.

 

Guys who are about 6'1" seem to be the perfect height for getting caught by Davids Looping right hand. And MWS is correct, Haye's punches are sloppy and wide. I think he has a very fast lead right, but what follows is wide and slow.

 

I think Hayes hands were down and his gob was open as early as the midpoint of the 2nd round.

Considering what a good first round Haye had, that is truly shocking stuff.

 

Yup, like I said, he can't seem to throw more than two punches in a row without getting sloppy and loose. The parallels with Hamed mount.....

 

This is a fucking strange, strange thread...

MTF

 

You have to laugh.....Kali Meehan is supposedly being manoevured into a fight with David Haye by Don King, and Kevin Mitchell, who is ringleader of the Haye Bandwagon, says it makes no sense for Haye to be fighting " a 39-year-old Australian who was stopped in just 32 seconds by Danny Williams eight years ago."



Well whats the problem? After all, David found the time to "look a million dollars" vs a 38 year old man who had been KO'd by David Tua in 17 seconds 14 years ago.



The incorrigible piece of shit then adds further:





"Less than a month after taking the WBA title from Nikolai Valuev, Haye finds himself in the middle of a row inspired by the American promoter, which could result in his having to fight the little-known Kali "Checkmate" Meehan next year."


"Little Known"? The man has probably got as many big names on his resume as David Haye does, and his one punch KO of Davarryl Williamson is as impressive, in terms of sheer 1 punch power, as anything Haye has ever done.

Has Haye even fought on TV in America yet????