Haye vs Ruiz Preview by Chris Baldwin

Why?

 

I agree that thinking fast and positioning is a BIG part of being a "fast" fighter.

For example Floyd is a very fast fighter mainly for those reasons. Especially at 135 and above, the raw speed of Floyd's punches and footspeed isn't exceptional, but he is a faster fighter because of how fast he thinks/reacts/positions himself etc in the ring.

Haye can pull the trigger relatively fast, and of course he's going to look pretty quick against a lumbering oaf like Valuev or a 38 year old Ruiz, BUT, my point was simply that the actual velocity of Haye's punches is nothing special, plus a lot of his punches are telegraphed, and against a heavy with decent reactions, I don't think he'll have a great connect ratio.

 

Irish, your hatred of Haye (you actually bet money against him in the Enzo fight ::) is so noted that it is difficult to take anything you say about him seriously.

MTF

 

If Ruiz had an inside left hook to the noggin, David would have been in serious difficulty. It's one thing to pull away from Ruiz with your hands down, it is something totally different to pull away from a guy like Wlad or Vitali, both of whom have a left hook.

 

I probably worded it wrong. I felt you were insulting my intelligence.

When I said the distance travelled is irrelevant, I meant it's irrelevant to the way I'm judging speed.

I'm judging it on velocity, that's what my eyes are seeing, rather than the total time between the punch starting and landing.

And judging on velocity, not even taking into account starting/finishing times, Povetkin's power shots are still faster.

 

Because you would think that Haye had just lost, instead of scoring a four knockdown, stoppage win.

Some of you guys are nuts. Including you Irish...

MTF

 

Fine. Go ahead...call me on one thing I have said.

And I dont have a "Hatred" of Haye as much as I do the jackeen media who build him up.

Haye is probably a decent sort. But Sky are Skum.

Now, please....lay it on me......opcorn:

 

Davids mouth was open after 3 minutes. He was slumped in his corner with his arms on the ropes. After 2 rounds it was obvious that his stamina has not improved, his fitness is simply not there. He is still wild and undisciplined. ruiz actually made it easy for him by walking straight into the mouth of the cannon and after 4 minutes, Ruiz, who had been nailed on the back of the head, was actually coming on stronger.

Is this true or false?:dunno:

 

And to think I thought you were joking about naming 5 HWs faster than Haye since 1978..

 

That, boss, is HATRED.

 

Listening to SKY commentating on Haye, or any British boxer for that matter, is always an unplesant experience.

And let me agree wholeheartedly with Hut- Jim Watt is a complete bellend. That is why I have his fight with Arguello on my internet bookmarks. It makes the hatred feel so muc better...

That doesn't detract from the fact that you hate the bloke. You used to spend hours arguing that he had no business at HW and now that he is, you are spending an equal amount of time talking about how shit he is and degrading a performance where he scored four KD's and a stoppage win against a guy who has been stopped once in something like a million years.

MTF

 

Tyson, Holyfield, Kirk Johnson, Mitch Green.

There is 4.

And then you can spend all night fussing over who makes 5th, cos there are about 20 contenders for that one.......

 

MTF - Ruiz looked like shit. Slow and doddering and feeble, he was there for the taking. I give Haye credit for making an effort to actually get the KO, but it was hardly a spectacular performance, Haye looked sloppy and simply not that good, and this awful version of Ruiz actually won a few rounds.

 

So Haye has shitty stamina? Well blow me down with a fucking feather. I had no idea...:laughing:

That is one of the reasons, along with his china jaw, that make him so much fun to watch. Until the towel was thrown in, Haye's win was never certain because he is such a vulnerable SOB.

As a fight fan, it create tension and that is GREAT in a division where fat bastards and power parries have become the norm.

MTF

 

It's been too long since I've seen Mitch Green fight, so I can't really say, but Kirk Johnson had faster hands.

Oh FUCK, I've just thought of someone else who had clearly faster hands. Everyone's favourite gay uncle, hailing all the way from Sooth Efrica - Corrie Sanders.

 

My point was just that its not a huge claim. And on a single shot basis Haye is fast. Tyson was definitely much faster. Holmes, too actually. So was Hide, but he wasn't world class so I wouldn't count him. Holy & Byrd, maybe. As a combo puncher Holy was MUCH faster, on a single shot basis the difference is negligible, IMO. Povetkin, I don't believe to be faster in any capacity other than being a better combo puncher and his shots being much more compact, short and tight.

I mean, Haye's a pretty fast single punch counter puncher.....to say he' one of the faster heavyweights of the last 30 years isn't an outlandish claim. It's just not saying THAT much. I think it was only the inclusion of the word 'Ali' in the process of communicating the point that got peoples goat up, since the comparison with him would be a joke.

 

I'm not saying it was a 'spectacular' performance. It was though a GOOD performance. Haye went out and tried to knock Ruiz out. Not throw power parries or any of that shit.

It doesn't matter that he looked 'sloppy'. Froch looks sloppy every second of every round but he keeps getting the job done. Does it matter that he fights like a farmer? ::

Haye went out and beat the shit out of Ruiz. He is old and ponderous but he is still a top ten guy at the weight in this awful division. It is a good win.

MTF

 

I agree, vulnerabilities can make for exciting fights, you never know what's going to happen etc - but I think Haye has been disappointing at heavy.

He talked a lot of shit, hasn't fought either Klitschko yet, and has been fighting like a boring pot shotter. Especially against Valuev, who despite his size, is not a dangerous fighter.

I used to be a Haye fan, but the hype he's been getting at heavyweight is ridiculous, and frankly, I don't think any of his fights have been exciting.

The Thomson and Mormeck fights were far more exciting than any of his HW fights.

 

Again, I thought Hut was joking about Haye's handspeed. If not, Im worried about the kid.

 

Let's get this right.......and I would appreciate some perspective and accurate reflection.

My beef with him was that guys like Mormeck and Thompson and Lolenga Mock were putting him on his ass......and all the while he was complaining about how Vitali did or did not look against Danny Williams, Sam Peter, or how Wlad looked vs Chris Byrd.

Then he gets a fight with Wlad. And pulls out. Then Wlad cleans up Chagaev in 10 one-sided rounds, scores a KD, busts his man up....and Haye goes on TV to say that Wlad looked Rubbish. I mean.....how much respect does this guy deserve? :dunno:

So his mouth was running before his ass was in gear. Thats for openers.

He says the division is shit. Lets say he cleans up. What does that make him? King of Shit. Marvellous. So there is no upside for the common fan, even if Haye does make it, because by his own word, the division stinks. If it stinks, and he is swimming around in it laboriously, what does that make him?:dunno:

Secondly, Ruiz has been beaten up by Roy Jones, an ancient Holyfield, James Toney and, hell, maybe even Valuev himself. He also lost to Sergei Kobozev. I mean, let's be honest here. He is a brave tough man, but he is painfully limited, pushing 40 and had not a lot to offer other than heart. Even at that he lasted 9 rounds and had Haye doing the old tongue-out routine.

He was stopped on his feet tonight...it's not like David laid him out, Tua-esque. Let's try to remember this.

 

Haye's straight right hand is fast and hurtful. Thats pretty much what he is and what he does. There is a reason why he calls himself 'hayemaker'.

Anyone who says otherwise is daft.

MTF

 

Now you're even conceding that Holy and Byrd MIGHT be faster. They clearly are, even on a single shot basis. So is Michael Moorer, and so is the gay uncle, Corrie Sanders. Corrie Sander's left cross had top tier velocity, way quicker than Haye's right cross.

The point is - saying Haye is one of the fastest heavyweights since Ali is preposterous. There have been plenty.

 

I was going to plump for Sanders, but I only wanted to name 4 and I liked Mitch Greens hands that bit more.

 

Yep, his handspeed is seriously nothing special. He's lucky that the HW division is full of lumbering oafs - in the 80's/90's his handspeed would be average.

 

Yes. AgREED.

And the hooks and swipes that come after it are often wide and slower than Jim "20" Watt himself.

 

Oh, so Haye is chinny? Well there is another news flash...

For fuck's sake mate- we all know he's as chinny as they come and has no stamina. We've known this for YEARS. What does that matter when he is winning? I mean, Wlad has a similarly china chin but, until someone lands a shot on it, no one cares too much.

For the record, I think Haye gets obliterated by Vitali Klit. I just find it odd that he gets a lot of shit after he has WON a fight. It's mental, really.

MTF

 

And yet, despite his 'swipes' and whatnot, he has, what, a 90% KO ratio...

MTF ::

 

Yes it is a good win. All wins are good. My argument was that I saw enough deficiencies such as, inter alia, a lack of stamina, porous defence and a bad tendency to be backed up.......by a guy who did really little more than plod laboriously forward, offering basic head movement and medium-high hands.

 

Please, that's a SKUM SPORTS comment.

Who does he have his 90% "KO" ratio against? Delaney? Gurov? Lolenga Mock? Come on.

And when was the last time he "KO'd" someone?

 

Wladimir has a better chin than Haye.

There is no way Haye takes Sam Peters and Corrie Sanders best and remains conscious.

A lot of the beef is what Steve Bunce ironically referred to as "The War Against Ignorance".

Haye, of his own volition or not, is caught up in a web of ignorance. Spun by the BBC, then Setanta, and now his latest paymasters.

But he has contributed to it himself also.

For instance: saying that the Klitschkos were boring and couldn't sell fights in the USA.

Has Haye ever sold a fight to the USA? Did Ruiz-Haye sell in the USA?

Please.

Haye needs to get the fuck out of the glasshouse.