Qawi vs Marciano

Give me Qawi there.

He was more compact, better defense , movement and combo, and tough enough to whistand the occasionnal blows that marciano would land

 

If Moore and Charles couldn't beat Marciano I'd compute Qawi's chances as roughly 0.01%

 

Exactly... Qawi has got to be one of the most overrated MM fighters... he beat a fading Saad, who was made to order for him anyway, he froze pretty much against Spinks

He gets a lot of credit for his great battle with Holyfield and for outmuscling James Scott but after that he has a an average resume and then a long, sad tenure as a short, fat journeyman cruiserweight/heavyweight

There's no way he beats Marciano, in my opinion. Never happen

 

There's not a lot of fighters i'd favor in a phone booth war over Marciano and that includes Qawi.

Although it would be a highly entertaing fight and Dwight would have his fair share of moments.

 

definitely, but eventually he is worn down and takes a late battering from the Rock

There is always a tendency to downgrade Rocky around here because he was one of the last truly small heavyweights, but the dude was FIERCE, a relentless bastard in the ring, with promethean strength and heavy hands... not too many guys below 200 pounds could hang in there with him, in my opinion

 

That's a nice take, C-Dogg.

Marciano is a strange case, IMO. In the present, he is often either fiercely over-rated, or horrendously under-estimated --- usually the latter, IMO. In the past, his own trainer reckoned him not good enough for the title for some time, as did the majority of early newspaper opinions. There were still more questions being asked of him by the time he challenged Walcott than perhaps any of the truly great champions of the division --- sans a select few (your Dempsey's, Ali's, Tunney's, etc.).

You can look at that one of two ways --- either he wasn't so great, but was at least very good, & benefitted significantly from the post-World War II drop-off in emerging Boxing talent, or he deserves the highest praise for overcoming a whole cavalcade of odds to claim the championship, retire undefeated with nearly all-comers neutralised, & eventually taking a place in history.

Either way, he turns Qawi into roadkill.

 

Quite

MTF ::

 

I think a lot of you guys underate Qawi. He literally went to war on even terms with holy in the first fight. And Holy was imo, at this point of his career, a way better fighter than marciano ever was.
Sure he only had 11 fights, but he was strong, fast, hit hard, had great stamina, not to mention his legendary beard and heart. And he was at this time, a way bigger guy physically than marciano. I think a lot of you guys haven't seen Holy fight at cruiser, or have forgottent how good he was. Yet, the small fat bleep was able to hang in there, outfought and hurt holy in a lot of rounds, and arguably won the fight (Tough I think that Holy edged it).

 

Qawi wasn't going to dance and move which means he would get hit repeatedly by Marciano. That butterball shell defense that Qawi employed would get him battered against Marciano. Whether it is arms, shoulders, ribs, or whatever, Marciano would connect often against Braxton. I honestly can't imagine how the 5'5" Qawi survives more than 7 rounds.

I typically pick virtually every HW Champion in history head-to-head versus Marciano simply because they were usually bigger, but the same doesn't hold true for guys under 200 pounds.

In a toe to toe brawl, as it would be with Qawi, give me Marciano against any cruiser in history.

 

He's downgraded because he had a pitiful amount of title fights.

 

The dude won 7 consecutive fights with the undisputed HW title on the line. Are there seriously a ton of other guys that could claim to have done more.

 

Holyfield at Cruiser wasn't in any meaningful way bigger (sans perhaps reach), & he certainly was not better than a peak Marciano. It is no disrespect to Qawi to lose this badly. It's like the Hagler-Spinks issue. No one would think less of Hagler if he went up & got beaten badly. Likewise, here.

 

No one can overlook the fact Holyfield couldn't hit as hard as Marciano if he were carrying a sledgehammer. If Qawi wants to fight the same fight against Marciano he did with Holyfield, good luck. He'll need it.

 

Yeah, ok. Nobody here has seen Holy at Cruiser except you. ::

Holyfield did have an excellent run at Cruiser, but at least part of that can be attributed to the extreme crappiness of the Cruiserweight division at that time. That's not to say Holyfield wasn't an excellent fighter...but it's a lot easier for a fighter to look like a beast when his opposition is weak.

And Holy only had 11 pro fights when he fought Qawi the first time. He was obviously talented, but untested. When they fought again and Holyfield had the experience of the first fight and a few more title fights under his belt, it was an entirely different fight.

 

Here's a twist for JOM to consider. Put the green, 11 fight Holyfield in the ring with the Marciano that beat Louis or Walcott.

And now tell me Holyfield would do as well as he did against Qawi. Not a chance. Marciano eats him alive.

 

I think that this Holy would rape Marciano actually. And no, Holy was a way bigger guy than marciano, it's obvious that he cutted a lot of weight at cruiser.

I probably think less of marciano than you guy do

 

I wouldn't say that. Marciano was a heavier puncher, but Holy was way crispier and sharp with his punches

 

You honestly think the version of Holyfield that went 15 with Qawi would be able to beat Marciano?

Wow, that's a little shocking to me. I am a huge Holyfield fan but that version of Holyfield was still green and barely a legitimate cruiser.

You are absolutely, 100 percent wrong about Holy cutting weight to fight at Cruiserweight. The dude was officially only 186 pounds for the first fight with Qawi. And if I remember correctly, Evander actually lost another 7 or 8 pounds during the fight with Qawi. Hell, Holyfield had to put on weight to get to the 200-205 range when he started his HW campaign.

 

That is completely incorrect. For one thing, Marciano trained down significantly to reach the 185-190lb. range. Pump him full of designer steroids & permit him to add enough weight to reduce his gastank to the same spurty level Holyfield had when he moved to Heavyweight, & there is absolutely no functional size difference between Holyfield & Marciano. Height, reach, yes. Everywhere else, no. They are simply more alike than unalike where size is concerned.

It's obvious you think very, very little of Marciano (whether you realise it or not) if you expect him to be, "raped" by the 11-bout Holyfield who scraped by Qawi --- who would not have beaten Marciano head-to-head in a million years. Like I said --- if people aren't heavily over-rating Marciano, they are drastically under-rating him.

I can't see any scenario where Holyfield, "rapes" Marciano. Not at Cruiser, not a Heavy. Not over twelve rounds, or fifteen. It just isn't happening.

 

Really??? What gave you that idea?

 

Yep. It wasn't like Holyfield was struggling to make the weight at Cruiser. And he started his career barely over the Light-Heavy Limit.

 

The guy was only muscle, while marciano was a little bit more pudgy.

 

Holy had an extended amateur career, and might have won the gold medal if he wasn't DQ. He didn't had a lot of professional fight, but at this time ,probably was boxing for a lot longer than rocky when he won the title, who only took up boxing past his 20.

As I said in my previous post, it's obvious that Holyfield was cutting weight. Dude had no fat at all on him. I maintain that he was much bigger than marciano.

 

Or maybe just a bit more white and hairy. There's a reason bodybuilders wax and stick black paint all over their bodies - makes a big difference.

 

that's ridiculous, you show an action shot of marciano, and a pic where holy is all relaxed

 

Was the only pic of cruiser Holy I could find. Holy's definitely leaner but the difference is exaggerated by Marciano's pale skin and hairiness, was my only point. In fighting shape Marciano was far from pudgy.

 

i didn't say he was pudgy, only that he was pudgier than holy.

 

Fair enough, sorry.

 

Again, I hate being the guy that is sticking up for Marciano. But seriously, the word 'pudgy' and the prime version of Marciano should never be uttered in the same sentence. The guy was like twisted steel in his fighting prime.

 

Not to mention, whatever you think of their physiques, Marciano has Holyfield's number hands-down for experience at Cruiser, & hands-down again for endurance at Heavyweight.

The Holyfield who fought Douglas, Foreman & Bowe between 1990-92 & the Marciano who crippled Louis, Charles & Moore would wage one epic war. It'd be a tight fight, all the way. Holyfield's big success would come in landing more punches --- a straighter hitter, with a reach & handspeed advantage. Marciano would recover ground & get his licks in with his bodyassault (something I suspect Holyfield was somewhat vulnerable to) & stronger lungs down the stretch. Great fight. Anyone who thinks it isn't a contest is kidding themselves in my view.