Povetkin's Team Want Klitschko To Pass WADA Drug Tests

"Kenneth".....::

 

I have made it clear many times before that it is indeed speculation to accuse fighters such as Pac of using PEDs. I simply believe that you have to be in a state of intense denial not to conclude that he probably is using. I don't see why that is arrogant, or frankly any different than saying "the Saints are probably going to win the Super Bowl". You look at the circumstances, you make a conclusion. Half of what is written on this board is speculation.. why is that a sin now? There is even a mythical matchups board. Don't you think that would be a lot less fun if you can't speculate? You'd have to dig up corpses and re-animate them to ever have any input on a thread over there.

I am sarcastic because I think this situation calls for it. Is that arrogant? Or "sad"? Or "extreme"? Without sarcasm, Irish could never post at all.

I think that fans of Pac don't like the PED situation, and I don't blame them. It makes them very uncomfortable, and rightly so. But don't characterize those who think he is juicing as some sort of fringe group of kooks. In every kind of informal boxing poll or message board banter I've seen, people are evenly divided on this issue. Worse, there are people right here on this board who have to bring up Mayweather every time someone posts something about enhanced testing, even if it doesn't relate to Mayweather. I think without the love for Pac, and the hatred for Mayweather, this issue would be lopsided and hardly anyone would defend Pac or other fighters who won't take accurate drug tests. To me, THAT is sad. People speculate about things with much less evidence all the time, but then hide behind this "speculation" bullshit when it comes to better testing for boxing. Many of you are being driven primarily by your emotion.

So here is what I need someone to explain to me, with logic and a well-reasoned argument. Don't just come back with more "that's not da rules of da commission" tripe:

* If we know that boxers on a high level are taking PEDs (Shane Mosley, Fernando Vargas just to name a few)
* and we know that the current testing is not capable of detecting some or all of these PEDs (USADA, WADA, doping experts, the NSAC's head doctor even admitted this, oh and again Shane Mosley)
* we also know that for whatever reason, the boxing commissions will not in the forseeable future be changing their drug testing policies (only NY so far has even stated that they will "review" the policies)

then WHY could anyone in their right mind possibly insist that there is anything at all wrong with a fighter asking for enhanced testing for both parties in their fight contract?

Now that's not speculation, these are all facts. I am so sick of people saying that the commissions should ALL change their rules, and then enhanced testing would be OK. What a contradictory position to take. It's either a good thing or it's not a good thing. It can't only become good just because some commission somewhere makes it a rule. That is idiotic.

If a fighter has the leverage to negotiate this as a stipulation of the fight, why in the hell shouldn't hey be able to do it? Boxing isn't even governed by any central authority. It's basically just a bunch of free agents making business deals with contracts they draw up, just like any other business contract.

State commissions in the USA and in countries all over the world don't even have the same damn RULES from place to place. You will probably NEVER get consistency amongst them in all eternity. So again - if you are one of the lucky few fighters who can negotiate better testing in your contracts, how can that possibly be bad? If anything, it may serve as impetus for the dinosaur commissions to do something about it more quickly.

This isn't about Wlad and it isn't about Pac. It sure as hell isn't about Floyd Mayweather. Get past that. This is about fixing a huge broken part of a sport most here profess to love. Well I for one have a lot of trouble enjoying the sport knowing that there are guys out there taking drugs which make them better, and that can then not only ruin the integrity of the sport, but also RUIN other fighters' careers and possibly their health in ways that otherwise would not have happened. That is WRONG and an INJUSTICE and the fix is easy. So let's get to it, one fight at a time if necessary. There is no defensible reason not to.

 

Pacquiao good; Floyd bad.

 

Oh, I see...so of all boxing's main problems right now...PED's are the main one. Because Floyd and some Gorillas up in New York say so.

 

Exactly.

How come nobody wanted to test for PED's during the 1980's and 1990's when drugs was big news?

 

Because Mayweather hadn't said so

MTF

 

I'm not for one second saying that the situation should be improved if the testing if useless. Of course it should. If it takes Mayweather or any other guy to bring about an improvement, then so be it.

But that doesn't mean that Pacquiao, Wlad or anyone else is on PED's.

The former is not mutually inclusive of the latter. Which you seem to think it is. That is my point.

MTF

 

Precisely.

Because America had all the belts, and testing and what-not would have been an inconvenience. Besides, only East Germans and Russkies take drugs.......

 

Feebs, it just so happens, that you are fighting for the most comfortable avenue for drugs cheats to continue to do what they do best. You say you would like to see stronger testing, but on the otherhand, want to destroy the momentous pressure required to implement them through the only avenue of influence possible, as a fighter's clause in a contract. Nevada, and especially Texas, have made it crystal clear they will not be upgrading thier testing despite knowing full well they're obsolete, infact Texas in cooperation with Bob Arum have organised an ANTI-DRUG TESTING protocol for Manny Pacquiao's future fights, ,.. absolutely fucking disgusting,.. and further circumstantial evidence to factor in to the case against him that he's an enhanced cheat. There's no way, any clean fighter out there, can enjoy the status quo that provides an easy avenue for thier opponent to come in chemically enhanced, unless they themselves are taking advantage of this broad incompetant loophole for thier own benefit ofcourse.

So Feebs,.. do you think, it is unfair,.. that Olympians, are under the oppressive view of being guilty, until proven innocent?...and do you believe it is unfair to suspend them when they refuse a blood test? Why suspend them? Do you think the WADA should abide by more of an honour code, and take an athlete's word for it that they're clean?

 

:crafty: You know very well that only the rare few idiot Fraud-groupies on here, genuinely believe he's "doing it for boxing, what a hero!" ,..you Irish Ambulance chaser. Fraud has no integrity, he's a devil amongst devils,.. but you see the thing about devils is, they will eat each other, they do it all the time in court, they pull out the 'ethics trump card' which they've 'learned' is the key to retrieving,.. 'Corruption, corruption, corruption,... Hey, your corruption has hurt my interests, time to go to court and display the holy cross for some 'get back',..essentially, fuck those filthy hypocritical parasites, every fucking one of them,..
You need to pull your head out of the swamp and look in another direction and realise that stronger advanced random testing for boxing, is not about the devils playground,..in the longer term, it cuts off one of thier tentacles for good, restricts them, the more SQUEEZE on this underworld the better, until all thier heads pop like champaigne. :crafty:

 

There's nothing wrong with a fighter A demanding for enhanced testing.
There's nothing wrong with a fighter B saying no to the demand.

I also think that enhanced testing can only be good for the sport.

It's fun reading everybody's theories as to what motivated fighter A & fighter B's decisions. (I also find the HGH big head/ eyebrow stuff funny-That will be tomorrows "Joppy lost because of the ring")

Personally I think Pac's refusal is suspicious & I think that PBF is intimidated by Manny.

As far as whether Manny is on PED's or not, the most compelling evidence suggesting he is is, IMO is his refusal to take the tests.
However as I said, I don't blame him for saying no, so that's not enough.

As far as his performances are concerned, IMO PED's are not the best available explanation.

 

I recently read an article in Boxing News (I think) in which a local boxing promoter pointed out something of note which no-one has mentioned.

The vast majority of boxers, and by this I mean about 95% of professionals, are good old fashioned journeymen who box in their spare time and use the professional game to enhance their ordinary working wage. They are not full time boxers, despite being professionals, and like the rest of us spend most of their waking lives grinding out a living to pay the bills and the mortgage.

The promotor's point was this. It is fine to impose an intrusive, positive obligation on Olympic contenders and world level contenders at ammy level because they will, in most cases, be training full time and usually receiving some kind of state funding to keep their heads above financially whilst they are doing it. Certainly that is the case in the UK, where top ammy prospects receive lottery funding to enable them to concentrate full time on boxing without distraction. It is their main 'job', in effect, so demanding random drug testing at any time comes with the territory and is easy enough to do, as you will find them in the gym most of the time so can be tracked by an official and tested as and when required.

Contrast this with 95% of pro boxers. These guys are at work most of the week and fight and train as much as they can in the spare time they have. Can you realistically impose the same demands on them? If so, how do you do it? Can you really turn up at a man's work place at random and take a blood test from him? If a man is working night shifts, will he really be happy if a WADA official turns up on his door at mid-day and demands a blood sample? Does this guy have to report at all times to an official to tell him where he is at any time, just in case a tester turns up?

Quite simply, how many of these pro's will decide to turn it in and decide it isn't worth the hassle? :dunno:

Not only that, but what about those guys who take recreational drugs in those periods when they aren't training? I know a couple of guys who box and, when out of training or when nowhere near the time of their next fight, at the weekend they are partial to the odd uplifting, illicit substance. If an official randomly turns in on a Sunday morning, these lads will be banned for years I'd reckon, in spite of never taking an PED's in their lives. How do we deal with this? :dunno:

This is before you take into account how to integrate the tests accross different countries and sanctioning bodies etc etc.

Perhaps the best way IS for boxers at the highest level to include WADA testing in their contracts, using the sanctioning bodies or WADA to oversee generally the agreements and to perhaps act as an intermediatary capacity when agreement cannot be reached. But if you do this then you open to suspicion immediately any person who cannot reach an agreement for whatever reason, and in a sport where ego and forceful negotiations are par for the course this would happen a LOT, and is then 'outed' by the other fighter as having 'refused' to random testing. Even then you are talking of wholsesale changes which would undoubtedly take time and plenty of money.

You see brother Kauki, on a practical level it isn't as simple as you make out.

All of this, however, is an entirely different discussion to that of whether or not Pacquiao is on PED's. I've said a trillion times already that he MIGHT be, and if he were to retire any time soon, I'd change that view to PROBABLY. But it isn't as clear cut as you, Outlander or anyone else is trying to make it.

MTF

 

I can definitely see the difficulties in attempting to insert the advanced testing apparatus on every registered pro-boxer in the world, the part-time club fighters, etc,... but the top priority is and should be the percentile at the top of the crop, and fighters coming into contention, those who are reiping the rewards out of the sport the most. Wlad and Pacquiao definitely fit that category. Refusal should NOT be an option. I can't have any sympathy for multiple millionaires who refuse to prove to the fans, (the people who make them rich), that they're clean honourable corruption free athletes. So when we allow these fighters to say "No, and I am not obligated to explain why", it seems some argue that we've got to 'refrain' ourselves from daring to think it's because they intend to take ped's as an integral part of thier success,.....well that's a pampered argument convenient for a drug riddled, money grubbing dictator to continue cheating,.. because if we really want to catch the rats, which you have claimed that is your wish aswell,..then you have got to stop loosening the snare, otherwise they're going to escape :nono:. This really should not be an issue to any top pro-fighter who is, and always has been clean, because it actually works in thier favor,.. and to the others who,.. "fear needles" or claim the blood tests weaken thier bodies for one month,...or any other suspiciously improbable excuse well,.. they got to get over it,.. like every single olympian and cyclist manages to,...maybe consult a therapist?... otherwise they have to find a different profession that will make them mutliple-millions,...

....when given that choice Feebs,... I'm pretty sure all top fighters would comply, or in Manny Pacquiao's case, retire promptly.

 

Someone mentioned how come they didn't do the enhanced drug testing in the 80's and 90's. Prolly the same reason or reasons they didn't do drug testing in baseball. We all knew that there was some funny business going on in baseball but nothing was done. We as sports fans just put our heads in the sand. And I'm not talking about the Barry Bonds Mark Mcguire Sammy Sosa era. I'm talking about the era where the guys were high on cocaine and amphetamines. Baseball just turned a blind eye. But then when they did implement the drug testing we found out that hella baseball players were juicing. We need random blood/piss tests in all of our professional sports. And if you refuse then you should suffer the consequences. Hell I know cats that used to cheat in college and professional football and that shit wasn't fair for a guy like me that just went about it the natural way. And if ur ass is into the recreational drugs then guess what you suffer the consequences. We all know that fighters can beat boxings piss test. All you have to do is ask Shane Mosley. Shane has never tested positive for PED however he admitted to taking them during the DLH rematch. What you think he's the only fighter to use PED's without getting caught. Hell to the no. We enhanced drug testing and it don't matter who started the movement or why. It's time for boxing to get caught up with the times. Now there are gonna have to be some exceptions because little club fighters are not gonna be able to afford the testing. But guys in the top 10 or possibly in the top 5 of their division should have to submit to enhanced testing. Just my take. I'll Holla 5000

 

Nice post you fucking rednecked honkey cracker motherfucker. :cheer: It mirrored mine mate, it mirrored mine, and I know best.

 

Why the name calling? Anyways I never read what you post so how would I know it mirrored your post. I'll Holla 5000

 

That's why I informed you that it mirrored, because it would have been silly to inform you if you'd already read it wouldn't it? :crafty: .. I dont know what you mean by name calling, unless you think that honkey cracker arsed motherfucker is an insult, and if it is an insult,.. what does that say about all the honkey cracker arsed motherfuckers out there? :dunno:

 

Again, I agree that the testing needs to be improved if it not good enough. But in the early stages of building those bridges, a few say no, then that doesnt automatically mean guiilt is the only answer.

The two are now intrinsically linked. Not yet.

MTF