Sugar Ray Leonard vs Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs

Most people here would pick Leonard to win: some like Xplosive would say

"Leonard by KO. Ray was no faded De La Hoya"

No way boxing purists would want to pick a former Flyweight over one of the greats of all time at this weight class.

Therefore...to make it interesting, don't just make a pick. Instead use your knowledge of the game to detail how the fight is likely to play out based upon styles.

I, personally, think that Manny gives Ray HELL!!!! Manny is like a Duran, only faster, slightly more stamina (YES more stamina), arguably more powerful and from a southpaw stance.

He gives Ray all of the same problems Duran gave him and then some.

Duran is arguably a tad more elusive..but this is nullified by the aforementioned "southpawedness" of Manny in addition to his unconventional style.

Ray would have to rely on his jab in this one and if he does..I believe he wins a close unanimous decision or possible late stoppage if he focusses on a strong body attack early.

A manny decision isn't out of the question however..

Gimme Ray by close decision. He uses his jab and boxes carefully but aggresively keepign Manny on the backfoot asmuch as possible. manny scores a flash KD in the middle rounds and outworks Ray in spots, but Ray commands the fight mainly in teh centre of the ring for the most part

 

Sly.. this one is really absurd ::

 

Manny has been succesful at welter largely in part because of the hand speed advantage he has over opponents. Of course he brings more to the table than just speed, but that's one big luxury he wouldn't have over Ray.

 

Manny wouldnt see round 8.

 

Manny would, on average, have a hand-speed advantage. Let's see Ray deal with this! Pacquiao, despite what Sly suggests, is actually more elusive than Duran (although he's probably less durable).

SRL would have to go on the offensive against Pacquiao, an uncomfortable position for him in light of Pacquiao's hand-speed, activity rate, and punching accuracy.

Pacquiao wins a decision.

 

Double L, like so many others, does not apparently understand Duran's defensive brilliance

 

Agreed completely. Good Lord, Duran more hittable than Pacquiao!?

Not in this lifetime.

 

In his prime he was like a cat, even when he was coming forward... that was what made him so special

 

Calling Pac more elusive than Duran is just downright wrong. Pac comes out of every long fight marked up, he gets hit hard and often.

 

Is it possible they're both elusive?

I'm fully aware of Duran's abililities.

 

Jackass

 

I think Pac gives Ray some problems, for sure. A year or two ago I would have thought this was a laughable mismatch but Pac's proved himself an exceptional welterweight in his last 2 fights. He's (even) faster of foot for my money (think he has among the fastest feet I've ever seen) and just as fast of hand - that presents problems for Ray that he'll have next to no experience of dealing with (like it will for Floyd). I can see this being fairly even after 6, but I think at some point Ray's size and killer instinct takes over and it and he forces a hard won stoppage through gritted teeth after about 11 in a fight both men leave marked up and sore. I think it'll be a thrown in towel or referee wave off; Pac is a tough little bastard he ain't getting stretched.

As time goes on (from watching the Mitchel, Judah, N'Dou fights) Im becoming more convinced Floyd won't be able to pull a similar result out the fire against Pac. I think Pac's in and out foot speed and flurries are gonna bamboozle the fuck out of Floyd.

 

Good post.

Ray has size and offensive advantages over Floyd...but Floyd is a smarter fighter than leonard and more elusive. Ray could do things to Pac than Floyd couldn't and teh reverse is also true.

Floyd's elusiveness, tactical brain and movement would "bamboozle the fuck out of" Pacquiao.

 

Hopefully we'll see, my man!:hammert: I keep going back and forward on this one, but I've seen things in what Judah and Mitchel were able to do with an in and out approach that lead me to think Floyd is stylistically vulnerable to somebody who pulls a Floyd on HIM - pot shotting in and out. And I don't think I've ever seen a better in and out fighter than Pac. He's significantly faster of foot than Floyd for my money, he's got the tools to show Floyd something he's never seen before and sustain in it for 12.

You're right though, Floyd is exceptionally adaptable, it'll be fascinating. The greatest match up in my decade following the sport BY FAR.

 

I personally think Floyd will Bamboozale and stop Pac anyway..

and to me Ray is on another level from Floyd..

​

 

More stamina ::

Sly, have you seen many prime Duran fights? He was still bouncing around in the 15th round.

At best Manny has similar stamina to Duran, there's no grounds whatsoever to suggest he has more stamina.

 

Manny has more stamina than ANYONE in history. So it's no knock on Duran to say that manny has slightly more stamina.

Have you ever seen Duran JUST as fresh and fast in the 12th round as he was in the first...as Manny was against Clottey after averaging 100 punches a round?

 

I wouldn't argue with this too strongly, Manny's stamina is prodigious. So was Duran's.....they're both up there.

 

yup

 

agREED.

 

Not so sure about this. Leonard was very smart and could be quite elusive when he felt the need to do so. Just because Leonard was willing to take more chances to get an opponent out of there doesn't mean he was less elusive.

Leonard is simply a significantly better Welter than Mayweather and a match-up between the two would not be fun for Floyd. That being said, I do think Mayweather would beat Pacquaio.

 

Double L for the love of Christ please dont tell me you think Manny had faster hands then Ray.

 

If Manny loses at handspeed, it certainly is not by much. Very few fighters in history had clearly more speed than Pac.

The same with stamina: name me a fighter who fights at Manny's pace, throwing as many punches and not even seems to tire in progress. I know last generation was greater than this one, but Manny's physical abilities are truly extraordinary and recognizing that won't hurt.

That being said, Ray is the favorite and clearly so, but Manny does make a fight out of it as he would do against any welter

 

Ray was clearly less elusive. Clearly. Leonard was a master boxer, sure, but he's never mentioned alongside history's most elusive fighters..and for good reason.

Floyd is.

Also people tend to confuse speed, movement and talent with ring intelligence. Leonard wasn't a dumb fighter by any stretch, but he's not a thinker/tactician like a Floyd or a Hopkins. Floyd studies an opponent and adapts. It's not a knock on Ray to say that Floyd is more intelligent in that ring.

I do agree, however, that Ray was a better "Welterweight" than mayweather. But i disagree that it's "significant".

 

I'd say it's close. And Manny has quicker feet, IMHO (than possibly anyone, ever).

 

Saying "clearly" twice and making one its own sentence doesn't make it any more true. And, I know...I know...NOBODY ever is as smart as your current two favorite fighters.

And I don't confuse speed with ring intelligence. Ugh. Spare me that foolishness. Will you be telling me that "styles make fights" next?

When Mayweather defeats, or even fights, a Welter than even approaches the level of Leonard's best wins at that weight, then MAYBE you can make a claim that Mayweather is close to Leonard at 147. For all his ballyhooed skills and super brainiac intelligence, Mayweather hasn't shown them against high quality opposition at 147. You can try to make more out of Gatti, Judah, Hatton and Baldomir than they really are, but none of them was anything special.

 

Why do your responses to my posts always seem angry and defensive like a wounded animal protecting her cubs?

"Saying "clearly" twice and making one its own sentence doesn't make it any more true."

" Ugh. Spare me that foolishness. Will you be telling me that "styles make fights" next?"

"And, I know...I know...NOBODY ever is as smart as your current two favorite fighters. "

etc....


Give it a rest will you?

Floyd is clearly more elusive than Ray Leonard was. Ray wasn't known for his elusiveness. Floyd is. That's my point. Floyd's a ghost in there. Very difficult to hit.

You may not like Floyd and you may think that I love the guy or whatever (I'm merely a fan of his talent)...but Floyd is indeed a very intelligent fighter..and again, not saying Ray was dumb...but saying that Floyd has an edge on him in this regard.

 

That is based on nothing but being a Mayweather fanboy.There is nothing factual behind it.

 

Dude, if you want to believe that Ray was a smarter fighter than Mayweather is then do your thing. Have fun with it.

This "Mayweather fanboy" stuff is just childish shit though.....

 

Pacquiao would fluster him at times and he'd get some shots in. But Ray was the bigger man, IMO faster and a much harder puncher.

Leonard KO 8