Mayweather: If Pacquiao Won't Get Drug Tested, No Fight!

Enlighten who? You and the seven other people on these boards? Six of whom play the blind herd mentality? I heard Manny was juicing ages ago, well before Floyd Sr opened his mouth...what's it to you? I was also informed by a former NSAC head that the steroid problem in boxing, particularly between the name fighters, is downright scary--among other things said. But you don't have to be privy to any of this to come to this conclusion. Just follow the trail of BULLSH*T.

 

You heard Manny was juicing ages ago? From who? Why didn't you make a thread about it and tell us? What exactly is ages ago because Manny has only looked incredible for a few years? Who is the former NSAC head that told you about the steroid problem?

 

Because I'm not a f*cking fool whose going to throw someone under a bus just because some guy on a message board wants to check the size of my pipe. Are you serious? I'm not giving up sh*t. You have the right to believe what you want...and I've seen what you've written about this issue so I know you have NO issues doing that.

 

yeh, and that would take a shit on Floyd's career again...he'd be entirely remembered in Pacquaios shadow

 

Yes, enlighten me. If you know things, you should either share them or if not you should stop berating those who are not privy to them as they are in a position much worse off than you are to make a judgement call.

So you heard someone say some stuff. Why didn't you share this when you heard it? You claim not to want to throw anyone under the bus, yet the only time you post here now is to do EXACTLY that- gleefully throwing Manny direcly under the bus and to throw those who presume his innocence under the same set of wheels.

Acting all 'holier than thou' doesn't exactly wash when you have spent MONTHS slating anyone who doesn't share your point of view mate.

Oh, and what do you mean, 'what's it to me'? What the fuck do you think it is to me? I'm as keen to know the truth as anyone else with any interest in our sport. If the best fighter in the world is a cheat, then damn sure I want to know about it.

MTF

 

Okay okay calm down. Not everyone has the inside info like you do and no I would not expect you to throw anyone under the bus if you feel that's what telling their name would amount to. Just the same though, why did you not make a thread telling us about this while keeping your informant confidential? Also is it true the stuff comes from the Phillipines?

 

Throwing Manny under a bus? Don't play ignorant. I think he and his team have done a good job doing that all by themselves. I debate based on what everyone knows about the situation, not what I've been told personally - although I'll admit that's CERTAINLY the reason why I am more adamant. But you never hear me bring up sh*t, and I definitely won't mention any names - what type of clown does that? As far as what I heard, two summers ago (yes, that long ago) a colleague out on the west coast mentioned a brewing PED scandal at Wildcard. Two "name" fighters were mentioned. In boxing, you hear so many things it's hard to take everything seriously. This was no different but something else caught my ear when a couple months later, a colleague - actually a friend I trust - mentioned something a similar thing in passing. If only he knew.

Truthfully MTF, I forgot about both incidents. Didn't care and in spite of what is said on these boards, I gleefully attacked Floyd when he used PEDs as an excuse to avoid Shane and Pac. But those stories, coupled with the work I did with the Nevada official - and what I was told - followed by everything that's happened recently made it very apparent to me that this is not about a fighter using PEDs to get out of facing a difficult opponent. Or that this is just ignorant Floyd Sr starting trouble. Floyd Sr just said aloud what had been whispered about in boxing circles for a while. So while many have attacked Floyd (and rightfully so), I'm putting the spotlight on the other guy - the one who wishes this issue would go away.

 

I don't know about that. I think Floyd Jr said that stuff about it coming from the Phillipines and outside of boxing, I doubt he has very little knowledge that you and I don't. But he's not a fool. What's funny to me is that people have been looking under every rock to find a reason why Floyd is using PEDs to avoid Manny when the answer is staring them right in the face. You mean a top athlete in a sport that treats PED testing with kid gloves might be juicing? Yes, Lucy. Yes, it's possible.

But let's play devil's advocate and give him the benefit of the doubt. Ask yourself again...what exactly was Pacquiao's reason for trying to change USADA protocol? He gave plenty...did any make sense?

 

Interesting.

I have no objection at all to the spotlight being on Manny. I think it is certainly possible that he is on PED's, based on what we have seen over the last few months. That possiblility increased IMHO when he fought Clottey in Texas, where I have read there is no testing procedures in place at all :dunno:

My objection thoughout has been the fact that whilst most of those who presume the innocence of a fighter seem open to the idea that Manny is on PED's, those on the other side of the debate insist that his guilt is CERTAIN, which at this stage it is not, even if, as is the case with you, there is additional information available which furthers the case against Pacquiao. There then seems to follow a tirade of abuse at the naysayers, as if insults and assertions make the case any stronger. Which it doesn't.

For me, and as I have said before, if you are going to take an ATG and add an asterix to his name and career, you have to have more than we have seen thus far.

The annoying thing, of course, is that Pacquiao could and should just put an end to the matter by taking the damn tests. It has gotten to the stage now with me that I am so fucking sick and tired of the debate that I wish that he would just get on with it so we can move on to the biggest fight of recent years.

MTF

 

You know, I can't front - Pac is guilty in my eyes. Just to backtrack, when Floyd Sr first made the comments, I was like, "hmmm...maybe there's some truth to what I heard before." But then Manny agreed to OST and all was forgotten. Then he tried to change the USADA protocol...GUILTY!

 

Good call.

 

I speak of Pacquiao like he's definitely on ped's because the evidence to the contrary is zero. The tangental evidence that frames him being on ped's is just about perfect.

As for Mosely, I remember teasing you about him having 'something missing' in the ring, but it did seem strange seeing him charged up, strong, throwing endless shots against Margarito, but was completely exhausted with Fraud after 2 rounds, he looked asthough his age had been restored, it is a bit suspicious, but I'd be much less confident claiming he's been on ped's post-balco, than I would Pacquiao, if we're are basing it on just performances, let alone everything else surrounding the Pacquiao scandal, exposed lies, one after the other, changing of stories, recruitment of a drug-lord, the deal with the Texas commission etc..

 

Well I first heard about fighters using PED's hella ago. As a matter of my uncle who used to train Will Grisby and was his trainer when he fought Ricardo Lopez told me that hella pro boxers use them. He went as far as to say that Roy Jones Jr was on on them. This was pre Richard Hall. I was like hella naw. He was like hell yeah they all take them. I didn't believe him or should I say didn't want to believe him especially when it came to Roy. But after all the baseball players getting caught I wouldn't put shit past them. I'll Holla 5000

 

Yeah it sucks to hear something like that about your fave fighter. But Roy and Richard Hall got caught with their pants DOWN. That should've told everyone what was brewing under the lid.

 

Are the present testing procedures as bad as people are making them out to be? And if so, why do you think that they haven't been changed? Are the commissions really just out for the money they can get and are thus turning a blind eye?

I have read plenty of explanations from random people online but nothing that I would consider especially reputable.

Genuine questions, BTW

MTF :dunno:

 

With all of these allegations about Pac on PEDs and this huge dark cloud hangin over him, you would think that his TOP priority right now would be to submit to any testing offered to clear his name. His actions right now definately don't seem to resemble that of an innocent man.

 

Agreed.

 

The testing procedures vary from state to state. Clearly, Nevada is the best but that's not saying much. They don't test for everything but they do test for most. The real problem is, the athletes know when they'll be tested. Which is why Manny's insistence on having his tests un-randomized is so...damning. You've got to be a real screw-up to get caught on the tests used currently. And even then, most get caught using a diuretic meaning they're clearing their system of PED use. Strange things can happen - like in the case of Toney-Ruiz, the fight was moved up so Toney (who was using some serious roids), couldn't cycle it out of his system fast enough.

As far as the commissions changing...they would need a good reason. The fighters and promoters would have to get on board. Because if the fighters are juicing, the promoters are gonna take them elsewhere--to a state commission that will allow them to do what they want. It's all about the money. Yes, they are turning a blind eye. Gotta do it to get the check. Too much money at stake to have these guys shrink down. I think people would be stunned to see what some of these guys look like without the juice. Maybe not as appealing.

 

Come to think of it, bigdawg, do you realize that if Hall had never opened his mouth (years later) about the tests...we would have never known that he and Roy tested positive? They swept that under the rug with the quickness! Think HBO didn't know? The promoters? Crazy, right?

 

Here comes the boogey man!! Here's PACQUAIO!!

Boo!

 

What a sad existence you live.

 

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=27459&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter



:doh:

fight coulda already happened if he wouldve agreed at the start of the year!

 

Here we go again.

I will help you (and your ilk) with your moral thicket, so as to show you why your position is contradictory and untenable.

Is taking PEDs against the rules of boxing, let's say in Nevada? That one is easy. Is taking PEDs in order to cheat (break the rules) and win fights you may not otherwise have won a bad thing? Do you see it as wrong?

I know that you do, otherwise you would not be pushing for the commissions to do better testing for them. What would be the point if their use is not wrong to begin with?

So taking PEDs in boxing is cheating, and it is morally wrong. Yet you are not arguing that better testing should be done. In fact, you are arguing AGAINST better testing unless it is done at the commission level. So then, answer this. If taking PEDs is both cheating and morally wrong, why is it only OK to prevent this wrong from happening through the commission?

I will give you an analogy to help you see this clearer. An easy one. Everyone agrees murder is generally wrong. The law says it's wrong here in the USA. The police enforce the law. So by your logic, if I hear a woman screaming, and I think I may be witnessing a murder occurring down at the end of a dark alley, but there are no police around to stop it from happening... I would be the one in the wrong if I try to stop it myself. After all, you can't have every citizen taking it into their own hands to stop murder. It has to be done at the official level, or it's better that it is not done at all. Is that not exactly what you are arguing?

If that is not what you are arguing, then stop coming on here condemning people like Floyd for adding better testing to fight contracts. Stop it. The commissions may or may not ever implement better testing. Of course you can argue that the commissions should improve testing, but you must also then praise Floyd for righting a significant wrong that the commissions won't.

If that is what you are arguing, then I submit to you that you are stuck in a terrible moral contradiction, as you are placing the ethical value of an official organization having the exclusive right to prevent wrongs OVER the ethical value of preventing the wrongs themselves!

Read that again and think about it.

It is a ludicrous position to hold. Even if you truly believed it, which I doubt you do, at the very most you could try and argue that in some way anarchy could ensue if fighters are creating their own conditions in their contracts, and this is the greater evil. But that would be disingenuous as well, because fighters ALREADY put conditions in their fight contracts above & beyond the "rules", and have been doing it for decades with no anarchy. Further, I would submit to you that it is far better to allow it, and only do something about it when and if it begins to threaten all of boxing due to some unforeseen anarchy that evolves (which is highly unlikely).

Thus I again adamantly state that whether or not you believe Pac is guilty or not, you are arguing a nonsensical position when you state that only the commission should be able to dictate these tests, not the individual fighters. At such time as the commissions do (if ever) institute USADA or similar tests, then we could revisit this topic and you may have a better argument, although still not a great one. But since right now the commissions refuse to enforce such a significant rule, I fail to see how anyone could possibly take the position you are taking.

Boxers put their lives on the line they have a right both under the rules of boxing and as a moral right to ensure their opponent is not cheating, by taking reasonable steps such as bilaterally consensual private testing.

How can you possibly argue against that?

 

Apparently that story is false.

 

Fight will never happen. I am sure of it.

 

I don't agree that he should take the tests to clear his name. He hasn't tested positive for any PED's so therefore he don't have anything to clear. Now Shane on the other hand took the tests to #1 clear his name and #2 to prove he wasn't on anything during the PBF fight. Now Manny needs to take the tests to prove that he's not using PED's and that he's with making sure that all fighters are clean! So why not do it. Fuck that bullshit that PBF is trying to dictate to him what he should or should not do. Just take the tests prove you are a freak of nature and m:e about $60 million. I'll Holla 5000

 

Using this logic, he shouldn't even have to take the regular tests doled out by the NSAC.

 

Maybe I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean to "clear his name" per se. I actually meant to submit to any future testing to prove that he doesn't have anything to hide.

 

It can catch users who are sloppy or dumb but surely can be improved greatly.

Look at what Flip Homansky, who was with the NSAC for many years, said about it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2782402

Margaret Goodman was also with the NSAC for a long time. She called EPO "the perfect drug for boxing".

It has a half life of 12 hours, and I don't think it's tested for anyway.

 

They don't test for it. They can...but they don't. And how easy is it to beat a test that you have weeks and weeks of notice for?