Mayweather: If Pacquiao Won't Get Drug Tested, No Fight!

Fair enough. I retract saying that you were one of the posters who were opposed to or condemning of Floyd putting enhanced testing in fight contracts. And I agree, we aren't too far apart on the issue. Also, I don't take anything anyone says personally on this messageboard, so PLEASE no worries in that area. I apologize for coming across as condescending, it isn't my intention. In truth, I applaud people like you, MTF, and others who come here and honestly try to discuss something like grown men, even if there is disagreement.

In fact, other than some superlative language here and there, I think the core group of posters who are not nuthuggers have actually discussed this whole thing quite rationally. There are a number of posters here who have been swayed to some extent on what they think about this issue, and that is primarily due to some good discussion IMO.

And so I respectfully stand by the main point of my post (no longer directed at you), that if anyone says they don't want people like Floyd to be able to put USADA testing demands in his fight contracts because "it's the commission's" job, they are being intellectually dishonest. Or at the very least haven't bothered to give the subject any meaningful thought.

 

Nicely said guys. I glad we can discuss this with cool heads.

I completely agree that the commissions will drag their feet on this. If testing needs to be added on the table for each individual fight until they bow to public pressure then so be it. Hopefully we'll get to the point where no fighter can duck required testing.

Full credit to Floyd. Whether he intended it or not, he has now placed the shoddy testing in boxing under the public microscope. I hope other big name fighters follow suit on this.

 

Hasn't El Terrible or another euro poster stated that Germany already has far better drug testing than the US? I don't see why you would pick out the Klitschkos and then denigrate them without a basis? Have they ever turned down any requests for more thorough testing? Not to my knowledge. Have they even come under scrutiny for PEDs such that a voluntary submission to testing would have been reasonable? Not to my knowledge.

Lampley commented that the testing for Floyd/Shane cost $20,000. I find that number to be quite a bit higher than I would have guessed, or believe, for that matter. I know there are economies of scale, but there is no way that olympic testing pays anywhere near that number for their athletes. Am I wrong? Maybe they had to fly in a testing crew? Anyway, even if it did cost $20k for that fight, I'd guess that it would cost less than $1k if they did it on all title fights. I don't base that on anything other than a hunch.

 

Way too expensive. Not going to happen.

 

Right here

 

Wlad with his fluent movement, monsterous power, in a 250lb body is worth consideration, but really,.. if fucking journalists would propose the question to these fighters about what they think about random blood testing, we'd be able to find out a little more from thier answers, instead, these sports-writers act like your typical forum idiots, either apathetic, tired of it, or Pedquiao-protectionist.

 

Not just expensive, but pretty much impossible in practical terms.

People forget that boxing isn't just about the top tier fighters. There is, and always has been, a boxing hierarchy when is very much laden with bodies once you get further down the ladder.

As I discussed with Kauki in another thread, how do you implement WADA testing on all of those journeymen, club fighters and up-and-comers who make up about 95% of the professional boxing fraternity? :dunno: Most of these guys work full time jobs and simply aren't going to be available for the sort of random testing that WADA and the other major testing bodies implement. Imagine a guy working night shifts at work and being woken at 7am by an official demanding a blood test. How happy is he going to be? The most likely outcome is that he decides he can't be bothered with the hassle. What about that young fighter who, ebtween fights, likes a few mood enhancing pills or powders at the weekend when he is out with his buddies. What are the repercussions of his habit when the WADA man comes calling at 3am on a Sunday morning? :dunno:

The end result is that such people likely decide that this boxing lark isn't for them, and boxing's already thinning talent pool gets ever shallower.

Better testing, if the testing is as poor as has been claimed is true, is an absolute must. In this sport, arguably more than any other, every effort should be made to ensure that a dangerous game is played on the levelled possible playing field. But in a sport with no over-reaching, world wide governing body and in which the vast majority of the protagonists are professional but nowhere near full time, the practicalities, as well as cost, are a real sticking point.

Simply declaring 'test everyone!' isn't going to cut the mustard.

MTF

 

Agreed MTF this isn't an easy thing to implement wholesale. That said, sometimes all that is needed is a starting point. The biggest fight in boxing is a great place to start. I'd like to see Nevada get well and truly behind this too. Maybe the testing should center around venue rather than competitors.

HW championship to be held at NV? Mandatory testing required. Base it around the venues that draw the most cash and the big names get a choice: take the tests or forfeit cash and get crucified in the court of public opinion.

Promoters could get into the act too. Implement testing for their fights and fighters. It would be a great PR move to 'guarantee' clean fights through required testing for their stable.

This is just a random idea, I don't know if it would be in any way possible.

 

This post is true. That is why I proposed this, which I have posted before. Perhaps not perfect, but I think this sort of approach makes better testing a very real possibility in almost every way that it matters:

 

Once upon a time, the NSAC only tested for steroids for championship fights. I see no reason why the same can't be done again.

 

This seems a good idea IMHO. The only problem I forsee is implementing such a programme worldwide. The USADA may or may not have any jurisdiction in any other country (I genuinely don't know but I suspect not) so what about those fights which are held outside the US? I don't think this would be in those countries with sufficient infrastructure, such as most European countires, but I'd wager a fair few of the African and Eastern European countires may not have a comparable body as the USADA in place.

Also, how reliable are these bodies? I mean, the USADA doesn't exactly have a belimish free record when it comes to exposing drug cheats in sport. I'm thinking of cases such at the Carl Lewis drug test failing business discussed here not so long ago and how that that was handled.

It comes down to boxing being almost unique in having no worldwide body in overall control of it. The whole thing is extraordinarily fragmented. This is why I (and others) believe that the sanctioning bodies should have a significant part to play as they are the only bodies who have any kind of worldwide 'authority' (and I use that term very loosely here) over the sport.

Quite what that might be I'm not sure, but something along the lines of a mandatory clause in any sanctioned, contracted bout implementing WADA/USADA/other similar national drug testing might suffice.

MTF :dunno:

 

he did 10 mill for every point floyd came in overweight

 

and 8 ounce gloves

 

Are you fellas saying that's not on the NSAC rulebook that Manny loves so much and sweared to fight under?

 

:::::::::atu:

 

I'm torn on this whole thing. On the one hand, I don't really think Floyd should be dictating the drug test thing. Whether or not the drug testing is good for the sport, isn't really the point. It's his intentions here. At the end of the day, more stringent drug testing is a good thing, and if everyone were tested that'd be awesome.

However, we can't ignore the fact that this was never asked of anyone, by Floyd, until Manny. Also I firmly believe that the reason this whole thing has come up is due to several factors.

1. Floyd Sr. has had a bug up his ass over Manny, ever since the Manny v. Hatton fight, when Manny destroyed Hatton, who was trained by Floyd Sr. Personally I wouldn't have been that mad, seeing as how Hatton didn't follow his directions.

2. When Floyd retired after DLH, he was generally considered THE P4P guy. No question really, no debating. However, since he took off, Manny rose up and people began saying that Manny was the best. I sincerely believe that this pissed off Floyd because he felt (rightly or not) that he was better than Manny, and that all Manny had done was beat up people that Floyd had already beaten.

So I think when you combine those two things, I don't know if it's out of the realm of possibility that they would bring up this whole steroids thing as a way of tainting Manny's accomplishements, without ever really having to fight him.

I'm not saying Floyd is afraid of Manny. I don't care for Floyd, but I don't think he's scared of anyone. However I think it's easy to feel that there are ulterior motives behind Floyd's sudden desire to blood test, aside from the "betterment of the sport".

Floyd has said in the past, most notably on Shade 45 with Ra The Rugged Man, that legacy doesn't pay bills, and that he was bigger than boxing, going so far as to say that when he leaves, boxing is dead.

Now whether that was hyperbole or not, whatever. Just saying this all lends to the idea that his motives aren't sincere.

And THAT is why I think Manny refuses to take the tests. I don't think he wants to do anything that is perceived as being dictated by Floyd, due to the disrespect that he feels from Floyd and his father.

I don't think Manny's on anything, and I think in his mind he thinks he's weakened by drawing blood, no matter how small. WE can't relate to that, yet we're not Manny and can't really compare how we feel about something, to how HE feels.

And finally, I find it laughable that Golden Boy is defending Floyd on this, insisting that Manny take the blood tests, saying that if he's got nothing to hide, take the tests.

And that's because when Zab Judah demanded Shane take blood tests back after it first came out that Shane admitted to taking the clear, Goldenboy and Schaeffer came out and EXPLICITLY said that they would take NO tests that weren't directed by NSAC. Saying that it was perfectly okay the way NSAC did things, and then as the capper, said that "Shane's not a cheater and shouldn't be treated like one".

Now I like Shane, but how are you going to defend a guy who actually ADMITTED to taking something, and yet demand that another guy take that same blood test, despite never admitting to taking or failing a drug test?

I just find that odd. Sorry for the rambling everyone.

 

this whole thing makes Pac look guilty IMO

if it "weakens him" to take a tiny bit of blood 2 weeks prior.. come on! it'd weaken Floyd too!

if you feel someone is hurting your reputation by saying you are on drugs.. the easiet way to clear it up without doubt.. easier than law suits etc.. is to take a test!
to not take the test and mis out on the biggest payday of your career, AND the chance to totally clear your name.... the only explanation to me is your on drugs

 

I think the testing has to be done by the sanctioning bodies in cooperation with the WADA authorities. They are the only one´s that operate world wide. The big four have to take responsibility for each of their world title bouts, and do random blood and urine testing the 12 weeks before the fight and immediately after the fight. If all these part-timers and up and comers aren´t dedicated enough to make this sacrifice for the biggest fight of their career, then they probably shouldn´t be world title challengers anyway.

The second step would need to include the boxing commissions, who would have to test for fights above a certain budget, that aren´t world title fights like Mayweather/Mosley.

That way you can at least guarantee the sport to be as clean as possible on the very top. With 17 weight classes * four world champions* three fights on average and at least another 20 interim champions* three fights per year, plus another 40 high budget bouts per year, you get a total of around 300 fights per year tested with high standards. That should really be possible, and many of the tested fighters involved in these fights, make enough money to live with the stricter testing, except of course for Manny Pacquiao.