Ok...Who's the P4P # 1 right now?

That's the way it's always been, Hut, & the way it always will be. Unfortunate for Mayweather, but as he's said, he doesn't care. Only his fans suffer for his active failure to fulfill his true obligations.

 

Nah, it's only been this way since about 1995 when Roy Jones realized he could get bumper pay days and adulation doing nothing meaningful at all and fans like Sly would keep him p4p No1 forever and rank him top 10 OAT anyway since they 'couldn't imagine' him losing. No fighter in history got away with this shit previously.

 

What I was actually referring to when I said that's the way it's always been, was the point you were making about how a fighter is judged on what he's actually done, not what he could've. Should've just quoted directly, but I think you snuck in another post before I could get mine down.

 

I see sorry, crossed wires. I think we basically agree anyway....

Floyd may well be better. If I had to guess I'd say he was slightly better. But that's just a hunch until he proves it. Naseem hamed was top 5 p4p because of how good people thought he was looking beating a bunch of second tierers & blown up bantams. People thought Mosley was a top tier ATG. Obviously Floyd is demonstrably better than those guys but thats not the point. Beating 35 year old featherweigths at welterweight & 38 year old with 16 months ring rust doesn't prove what Pac has proven. Wouldn't matter if he'd done it standing on his head, glowing like the brief case in pulp fiction, playing star spangled banner out a cazoo in his ass.

edit - None of that last paragraph/rant was addressed to you Ramonza btw! ::

 

"What Manny has done". Is easy to rely on this words and assume everyone will be oh ok and then tear Floyd's resume down. Let's just say this because I don't have a lot of time right now... In "What Manny has done" goes in a weight drained ODLH. Shane Mosley after his great win over Margarito and the way he has been fighting is a much better challenge. Hell, after his win over Margarito it could well be argued Mosley took the throne at 147 and many people said so here but here comes Floyd and beats the hell out of him and it's just a shot fighter with no bussiness fighting.

... "Yet look at everything Manny has done."

 

Or...you could get in your car and drive far, far away. ::

 

this poll is better for mayweather jr. now he can retire by defeating the number 1 pound for pounder on the planet.

furthermore his last 4 opponents will have been top 10 p4p guys

 

dlh was barely a top 10 welterweight, hillbilly.

 

pacquiao, mosley, marquez, hatton, shitbird

 

I think some of the confusion in this p4p stuff lies in that their are types of p4p.

There is the mythical matchup p4p where you rank who you think would win all things being equaled between the 2 fighters.

Then there is the p4p used by magazines like the Ring that seem to award based on achievements. So I think people on here are getting the two all muddled up and it's causing the confusion that has Sly pulling his hair out.

 

Will this be an actual defeat or just another one of Floyd's wins by default?

 

default wins dont pay the bills

 

Yep.

The bolded one is what p4p is supposed to mean. The latter p4p is just a resume comparison and doesn't need p4p designation.

Who is the best fighter? Best how?

Who is the best fighter p4p? That makes sense and clarifies the question.

Compare to...

Which fighter has the best resume?

Which fighter has the best resume p4p?

It adding p4p to the question doesn't clarify anything.

 

What are you guys talking about? Floyd just fought and beat a top 3 (at worst) welterweight. You don't have to imagine anything it was right there in front of you - just like with Hatton, just like with DLH. Just like it will be with Pacquiao

 

Remember when People were Saying Floyd was "Scared" of Shane, that Shane "Punked him Out" After the Marquez Fight & that Floyd was "Backed into a Corner & HAD to Fight Shane"???...

NOW, it's "Shane is Shot"...


REED::

 

Just for the record: I never said any of those things. Ever.

 

Here's a nice little fact: Had Pacquiao gone to fight and dominate Mosley in his last fight instead of Clottey instead of the "well Shane was shot Manny cherry picked him because of that" we would be getting lots of threads saying how Manny should be now a lock as a top 10-5 all timer by going on and dominating the real champion at 147 who had proven himself there by beating Margarito.

Floyd's and Manny's achievements in the last 4 fights are not too far yet Manny. Hell, they share 2 fellas that Floyd got to first. Yet look at the disparity of the perception of their resumes. It's taken by default a "Look what Manny has done" and "Then look how Floyd has cherry picked" argument out of everybody.

That being said I have absolutely no problem with anybody ranking Manny higher right now. He's been more active and had wonderful performances. That's why I want the fight to happen so much. This is Floyd's legacy, right here.

 

What I want to know is, what if Floyd fights Cotto next and stops him in less than 12 rounds? Should automagically launch Floyd way ahead of Pacquiao, no? :dunno:

 

That would be cherry picking for the critics since Cotto will be clearly done on their minds by the time they get on the ring. Yet Hatton/DLH are part of the "Look at what Manny has done compared to Floyd!" argument. Even if Floyd got to better versions of each and before him.

Pacmania is running wild.

 

Nope...

Pac Sac Swingers would Cling to the Fact that Manny Got to Cotto 1st, Even Though those SAME Posters NEVER Credit Floyd for Getting to Dela & Hatton 1st...

EVER!!!...



REED:hammert:

 

Yep...


REED:kidcool:

 

The Hatton wins for Pac & Floyd are roughly comparable. A) Hatton had fought twice since Floyd when Pac fought him and looked fine B) it was at 140, Hatton's prime weight where he was undisputed champ. Pac scores marginally higher on that score, mainly due to the manner of the win.

DLH - Floyd's win is definitely more significant. Pac got so much credit for that win because people were just shocked he could compete at welterweight. He had no business there, really he didn't. But he's at welter now, so in the p4p stakes that win isn't very significant. Floyd scores marginally more for that, but it was fucking ages ago, so it's relevance diminishes with time and Pac also scores for the shear dominance he displayed.....

So, leaving aside that Pacs wins over Oscar & Hatton were more recent, which weights in his favour slightly, too (after the other above factors are taken into account) basically the bulk of the debate comes down to their last two wins. Cotto>old rusty Molsey, Clottey>Marquez. Not by 100 miles, it's not like it isn't fairly close, but it is clear. There's no 'pacmania' or bizarre drooling fandom required here, just an objective look at their recent resumes.

I've taken Floyds side 100% over the drug testing and in the negotiations, I call it how I see it.

 

Hatton Looked Pretty AVERAGE in his Fight w/Lazcano & Even FLIRTED w/Tasting the Canvas in that Bout...It was After that Bout that the NON-THREATENING Malignaggi was Summoned...

Sure, Pac's Win Over Hatton was BETTER, but the Fact is, Floyd Took Hatton's "0" from him, via KO...After that, NONE of the Kings Horses or Men Could Put Hatton Back Together Again...



REED:kidcool:

 

The way Floyd controlled, guaranteed HOF'er, Shane Mosley means to everyone who watched that fight that he's the best fighter on the planet, no ifs and no buts. People who give it to Pac are only doing it because Pac wins the popularity contest.

Dominating Shane mosley 11 rounds to 1 (Shane 38-39 or not) and looking like he could have stopped him if he turned up the heat....is more impressive than any fight pacquiao has had at Welterweight. And we're judging them at welterweight at the moment.

Yeah Pac dominated Cotto and stopped him. Cotto was always vulnerable...Corley told us that years ago....and Cotto also fought Pac at a catchweight.


Everyone and their aunty knows that Floyd is THE premier fighter in terms of raw talent right now. And THAT..folks...is what P4P is all about at the end of the day....

 

Great, another new way to define p4p

 

Admittedly I don't speak Fin as well as you speak English but...

FAAK OOF

 

The problem with this is...Floyd didn't BEAT UP Oscar. if Floyd did to Oscar what he did to Shane THEN Pac got to him...then yes...that would be valid.

 

Floyd didn't Fight a Guy that Had an I.V. Stuck in his Arm Mere MINUTES B 4 his Ringwalk Either...



REED:mj:

 

Touchè

 

Fair enough and just to let you know the Pacmania wasn't for you.

Reed did point out and it's true that Hatton's confidence was nowhere the same for Floyd's fight and Manny's. A guy with Hatton's style depends a lot of momentum and confidence and there's no doubt that was at his peak for the Floyd fight. He was undefeated having just destroyed JL Castillo.

You did manage to include 'old and rusty' though and I gotta disagree there. Mosley is a better win than Cotto and Clottey. Why? Because Cotto had taken an awful beating and lost to Margarito when Pacquiao got to him while the same old Mosley had cleaned the floor with the same Margarito. I understand Cotto had that close win over Mosley years back but this is irrelevant now since boxing is really a "What have you done lately" kind of sport. After the Margarito trashing, Mosley had every right to be ranked at the top of the division and that can't be denied. Clottey sure, we will rank it as a better win than Marquez for the only reason that his body is bigger and is a natural legit Welterweight but really, the man is a big time choker and was never ever going to beat a boxer on Manny's level. He is no better win than Zab Judah.

So at the end what we got? I don't think we disagree much and your last post clearly stays away from the "Weeeell look at what Manny has done lately, Floyd is miles away".

The fight has to happen.

Has to.

::