Ok...Who's the P4P # 1 right now?

Again though, it depends on how you define 'pound for pound'. This is one of the reasons I don't get too bothered by the whole business, because it's such a subjective business.

MTF :dunno:

 

I didn't forget shit. That was, what, NINE years ago? ::

Bear in mind that Pacquiao was fighting for super-featherweight titles TWO years ago. People seem to forget this because of what he has done since, but it is a fact.

I'm not going to argue that Pacquiao shouldn't be judged as a welterweight, because he should be as that is where he now campaigns. But the difference between the two is that Manny could get back down to 140 if there was a pressing reason to. Mayweather Jr couldn't in a million years now.

MTF

 

That wasn't my intention. I am fully aware of the fact that Manny is fighting at welter and should be judged as one.

The difference, I have said before, is that Mayweather fights at welterweight because that is about as low as he can go, weight wise. When he contracted to fight below 147, he just paid some cash to ensure he came in at a comfortable weight. He could move up to 154 (again) if he needed to...

I'd be fairly surprised if Pacquiao could get up to 154 TBH and, if there was enough of a financial incentive, he could easily get back down to at least 140 I'd wager.

This is the point I was making.

MTF

 

This is about the tenth time you have repeatedly this lie and you really should stop now Stafford.

I picked Pacquiao to beat Hatton by KO. Anyone who doubts this should recall that Jaws, in his wisdom, started a thread after the fight calling out both Mister REED and I despite the fact that we BOTH picked Pacquiao to win.

Mister REED will recall this clearly, I am sure.

So lets stop this nonsense once and for all. It is clear that you no longer state this mistakenly because I have corrected you over and over again. You are now just lying for the sake of making a non-existant point in an attempt to cover up your own, preposterous bias when it comes to Mayweather.

Your trolling has reached quite pathetic depths.

MTF :shit:

 

But where does it end? Do we set up a parallel p4p supermiddleweight ratings where we move Jermain Taylor up a few places because he used to fight at middleweight? Or Kessler down a bit because we think his shoulders are awfully broad? Can't see any other logical way to judge a welterweight p4p than as a welterweight, this whole things a sight less subjective & complicated than people wanna make it.

 

Confirmed...

Like REED, You Expected Hatton to Put Forth a COMPETITIVE Fight, but U OFFICIALLY Picked Pac by STOPPAGE...Which made Jaws' "Crow" Thread All the More ASSININE...



REED:mj:

 

::

Okay, here's my take.

The whole point in P4P is to hypothetically consider how well a guy would do against another guy if they weighed the same, yes?

Well, when a guy starts moving through weightclasses, you get a REAL answer to the hypothetical teaser. If, for example, you have a champion at super-featherweight who is considered a P4P contender and he moves up to light welter and beats the champion (also a consensus top ten P4P contender) there, you can safely increase his P4P accordingly, because part of the hypothetical question has been answered by the deeds of the fighter. Similarly, if said fighter then moves up again to welter and beats the champion there (and again a P4P top ten contender), his ranking rises even further as he continues to act in a way which lends the hypothetical question redunant.

This is what I mean when I say I consider the starting weight class, amount of divisions crossed etc immediately relevant rather than historically relevant.

Also, this is why in my eyes Mayweather Jr was P4P number one for so long. For a good fews years he rendered P4P comparison between divisional champs irrelevant because he was rampaging his way through the weights. Nowadays it takes him three years to fight a bloke the same size as him... :doh:

To me this isn't necessarily complex. In fact, it's fairly straightfoward and it doesn't matter to much about the bredth of a fighter's shoulders...::

MTF

 

I recall you picking Pacquaio but giving Hatton a legit shot at the upset. Stafford is talking out of his ass yet again.

 

Correct.

At the time Pacquiao's ability to carry his power with him was still a question mark and we only had the Oscar fight as a guide and of course Oscar was shot to shit, so I stated clearly and repeatedly that I thought Hatton might have a chance as the naturally bigger (and supposedly stronger man) but that Pacquiao by KO was the most likely result.

Stafford knows this. He even emailed me on Facebook to gloat at Hatton's demise and my apparently picking Hatton at the very same time that Jaws was mounting his preposterous crow thread...:laughing:

He is just stirring shit, again, to deflect from his own dismal trolling.

He is rapidly becoming the new Rubio of this site.

MTF :shit:

 

Absolutely. That was the worst crow thread in the history of boxing forums...

MTF :bangh:

 

Are you guys honestly going to make the argument that if Floyd beats Pac, its because of this "massive" size and strength advantage that Floyd has over Pacquiao? haha

Altho I do agree, Pac's recent resume is better than Floyd's... I just can't wait to see everyone claiming him to have been a blown up featherweight once Floyd outclasses him

 

Not me. IMHO Floyd DOES have a size advantage, but to call it 'massive' would be a lie and if he beats Pacquiao comprehensively it cements his place in the top fifteen or so all time fighters.

The winner of that fight takes ALL the kudos. It is one of those fights where excuses from any side would probably be absolutely bogus.

MTF

 

Do you think if Floyd beats Pac, this size advantage will have anything to do with it?

 

Urgh. Im out this conversation. ::

Historical ratings = guys being small at a weight, relevant because it deals with the entire arc of a career.

p4p at a given moment = guys are judged by the weight they campaign in, because it's a rating based on a specific moment in time.

Get it learnt, people.:doh:

 

Pacquiao

 

To Date, Floyd Mayweather has Never EVER Beaten a Fighter Based on Superior SIZE or STRENGTH, INCLUDING JM Marquez...Floyd Is, Has Been & ALWAYS WILL B a SKILLFUL Fighter...



REED:mj:

 

At 147 PBF would have strength & size advantages over Manny.
PBF is more physically suited to that weight than Manny.

That should be obvious to anybody who doesn't have an agenda.

A fight between them would be a facinating styles matchup
However the difference in the end will be PBF's strength & size advantage.

Manny will make PBF fight, he throws punches in bunches from weird angles & is great at getting of first, but he does leave himself open in the process, particularly to RH's.
It's just that you have to have ridiculous reflexes to take advantage of it.
PBF has those type of reflexes & has a great RH counter.
He is also hard to catch.

However, If the size/ strength differential was in Manny's favour as much as it is in PBF's favour, he would overpower PBF with his workrate & combos, basically just out-bully & out-work him, and walk through the occasional counter.

As it is in PBF's favour, I see PBF walking Manny down staying incredibly tight defensively and countering him often between Manny's combos.
As Manny is unlikely to fight to merely last the distance, and will always be trying to win, he will probably absorb too much punishment and get stopped in the late rounds.

However fights are won in the ring, not on message boards.
As such neither man deserves to be credited with the others scalp.

 

Of course he didn't based on size and strength although it certainly helped. Size and strength wasn't punching JMM in the mouth, but it certainly did look like JMM couldn't hurt Floyd very much. And people want to talk about Pac's POSSIBLE cheating nobody hardly ever mentions how Floyd cheated at the scales and was willing to pay 600,000 to do so.

Would Floyd have beaten JMM anyway? I'm see no reason why not, but the very fact he didn't fight on an even plane is typical Floyd playing it safe. Here's where the Floyd groupies can look in the mirror and see their bias. None of you Floyd groupies will criticize what Floyd did there, yet when Manny wanted Cotto to fight at 145 I thought that was bullshit.

 

"You Floyd Groupies"???:boohoo:...

1st of All, if U were Privy to the Mayweather-Marquez Conference Call, MONTHS PRIOR to the 1st Date (that was Subsequently Postponed), U'd have CLEARLY Heard Floyd State Even THEN that it was "Welterweight Fight" AND he was Coming in at the "Welterweight Limit"...

So Sorry, but NOBODY "Cheated" @ the Scales, Since Floyd Revealed his Intent Nearly Half a YEAR PRIOR to the Fight Taking Place...AND Floyd Paid Money to Top it Off...

 

Anybody w/Out an Agenda, Not to Mention Anybody that Actually has ACCESS to the 40+ Fights Floyd Mayweather has Had, Should Also REALIZE that Mayweather has NEVER Been the Type of Fighter to PHYSICALLY IMPOSE Himself on his Foe...

Floyd DOESN'T Beat Guys w/"Size & Strength"...He Beats them w/SKILL...




REED:hammert:

 

I'll be interested to see how they look once they're in the same ring. To be honest, I'd always thought Hatton was bigger than Floyd in terms of body thickness and the like. I was very surprised that once they stepped in the ring, Floyd looked the bigger man at least in my eyes.

Not that it's relevant to the topic, It'll just be interesting to see. FM isn't likely to change his style and he's never been a 'bullying' type fighter.

 

you really see things that simply? that PBF's win over JMM had nothing to do with his size? If that were the case, why did PBF choose a lightweight as his opponent? because a lightweight is just as much a threat as a fellow welterweight? why the fuck would he do that? get a fucking clue REED.

 

I'm not sure why you quoted my post with this response as it doesn't directly deal with anything that I wrote.

 

Really? You sure about that? Did PBF use size and strength to beat JMM? Chavez? Hatton?

 

NO, he DIDN'T...Did U Actually SEE those Fights???...



REED:hammert:

 

yes. i did. and i have to say, i'm disappointed that someone like you could've watched these fights and not seen the role that PBF's strength played in his victories. if you can't see it, i'm not going to debate it with you. but suffice it to say: you're wrong. ::

 

How Bout YOU Get a Clue, Doub???...Name the ONE Guy that's ARGUABLY Beaten Manny Pac TWICE???...N Case U Forgot, Manny Pac BEGAN his Lb for Lb Ascension During Floyd's HIATUS, so What BETTER Way to RE-Enter the Fray than by DECISIVELY Beating a Guy that's Arguably Beaten Pac TWICE???...

U Make it Seem as if Floyd Fought just Any Ol' Lightweight...NO, he Fought a Guy that CALLED HIM OUT 1st...The SAME Guy that Arguably BEAT Pac TWICE...

So YOU Get a Clue...


REED:boohoo:

 

Floyd RETREATED from Marquez the ENTIRE Fight...Not 1nce Did Floyd Actually TRY to Dish Out some Hurt...Hell, the Lone Knockdown Almost Seemed ACCIDENTAL...

Suffice to Say, YOU DON'T Know what the Fuck U're Talking about...



REED:mj:

 

Of course he doesn't, he's a defensive fighter and as such he uses that size and strength as a defensive advantage not an offensive one.

 

what would you say the difference was between:

PBF/Chavez, PBF/JMM, PBF/Hatton, PBF/N'dou....

and...

PBF/ODH, PBF/Baldomir, PBF/Castillo II

????