Let's do it a little differently... If they fought ten times, what would be the score IYO? Ali - Holmes Marciano-Louis Hagler-Hopkins
I know it's your opinion and this is all subjective, but didn't Louis say something along the lines of Rocky being able to give him trouble at any point in his career because he hated being crowded?
Fair point but I never put much weight on what fighters say about opponents, personally. So much of it is either driven by protecting their own ego or due to their personal feelings about the guy they're fighting good or bad. I mean the classic thing is a guy ALWAYS saying a guy they beat hit him the hardest. Every fighter in the history of combat sports since ancient Greece has claimed that shit. :: But anyway yeah....I always kinda take these things with a packet & a half of salt.
As you rightly say, most fighters say this stuff about a person they have beat. In those cases I take it with a pinch of salt, but this is different obviously because Louis got pummelled and still said Rocky would have given him hell in his prime.
Did he say it shortly after the fight? If so mibbes he was in denial about his diminishing abilities? Or even that because he HAD to fight on for the tax man he felt compelled to persuade the public that Marciano was just THAt good and he was the same old Joe Louis. But either way....guys rarely have any real perspective on these things and I really think prime Louis beats Marciano.
To be honest I'm not sure when it was said. I do agree Louis beats him, and probably gets more wins in a 10 fight series, but I can't see a 10-0
It's a long, imposing, hideous list of glaring short-comings Marciano is using his jaw to try to penetrate against a peak Louis. I think it's a bit like the Godoy rematch, in a lot of ways. Those uppercuts at close-range left Godoy, a fighter never off his feet in some seventy clashes, before Louis dropped him three times, unrecognisable to his own mother. It's those short uppercuts & hooks at tight-range which blind fighters & cripple their rhythm. Even for the elite echelon of hard men, someone as gifted & jolting in their delivery as Louis, given the opportunity to land at will, will cast a man asunder. Marciano, Frazier, Jeffries, Dempsey...I think they all would have wilted if they simply couldn't get out of the way of the punches, or put Louis on his back early & keep him there.
I've made the assumption you're talking about prime versions of Ali and Louis. Based on when Ali and Louis fought their respective opponents, I'd say Holmes and Marciano go 10-0.
Yes, I'm talking about prime versions, naturally. Based on when they fought their respective opponents...forget 10-0...more like 1000-0!
I'm assuming there are some rematches in here. Not necessarily 10 back to back fights, but at least considering they've fought each other at least once and gained some knowledge from it. Factoring that and "off nights" I'll go with: Ali 7-2-1 Louis 8-2 Hagler 7-3
in the wonderful book "In this corner...!" Archie Moore mentions Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins about 90 times, the name "Ezzard Charles" never passes his lips
LOL, certainly possible you know what by far is the best chapter in the whole book? Willie Pastrano... dude was a beauty... totally hilarious, frank and honest, no bullshit, a real character his comments about fighting Moore are terrific, funny and respectful and appreciative all at once the next best is Gunboat Smith the heavyweight contender of the 1910s, who despite having some rather unenlightened language choices and views typical of a poor, barely literate white American from those times, is just outlandishly amusing in that sort of crotchety, old timey way Its a good book
