From sports perspective, is Pac-PBF biggest fight ever?

I don't know the correct English expression but what I mean is, if we disregard popularity, publicity and concentrate just on attributes that are related to sport.

In the fight, the two best fighters of the game, both primes, both all-time greats, face each other. For example, Leonard-Hearns I could arguably be bigger because we know how their careers turned out, but at the time they were not #1 and #2 in the world. Whitaker and JCC were close but they were not in their primes. Greb-Walker is difficult to compare I think.

So, can anybody come up with a fight that was clearly bigger than this one?

 

No way. Maybe it would be if Floyd was fighting someone his own size.

 

For a non-heavyweight fight, yes. Ali's fights had more global appeal.

This is bigger than DLH/Tito and by a lot.

 

Which is exactly what this thread was NOT about:doh:

 

It doesn't matter. Ali/Frazier is a bigger fight. Two top heavyweights in their prime who ended up being top 10 all time.

 

At the fight time Frazier was not considered as a legend, nor one of the two best fighters in the world

 

True. I am of the thinking that this fight on paper is the most significant historically going into the fight. One of these guys could be in the top 10 of all time with a decisive win over the other.

 

Yes. From an American perspective.

If Floyd, an African-American, cannot overcome a Filipino over whom he holds so many physical advantages, in a massive money fight, then what started the night of Maskaev Rahman II takes another massive leap forward. Furthermore, by way of a useful sub-plot, it would dent massively this so-called "Black Overclass" that has emerged....Floyd needs to win, and win big, or a lot of myths and hopes get blown to pieces. It is what Irish poet Yeats called the "terrible beauty"....Mayweather has to hold the fort. If he wins, he wins big. If he loses, he loses massive....as do a whole load of other people with him. The word is already out there on America....if Floyd cannot cash in at the wheel, then that word gets just a little bit louder.

Next thing you know, Argentina will be thinking they can take the USA in a game of basketball. Oh wait.....

 

:crafty: ....You'd still be satisfied if the Phillipino had to cheat in order to let the rest of the world in?.. I'm afraid Fraud threw a beautiful, sparkly, diamond studded spanner in those works..

 

It would have been perfect........but I have a theory which I think is pretty Ped-Proof.

Mayweather has been doing gear for years.

For Pacquaio, he will come off it. As long as Pacquiao comes off it too.

Then Mayweather figures a clean Floyd is too good for a clean Pac.

Thats why Floyd was so insistent on the Mosley tests. He knew Mosley wouldn't cheat twice after the publicity of the last scam. But he insisted on the tests so that he, Floyd, could be seen taking them.

Now it looks like Floyd has always been clean.

Ironically, the one fight Floyd took that we know he passed WADA for {ha ha} is also the one where he looked like, albeit briefly, he could lose.

 

Maybe he has been taking Ped's before,.. afterall, in boxing, there's a monsterous great loophole in order to operate in comfortably,.. but in order to achieve true satisfying clean physical supremecy on behalf of the rest of the world,... should it come down to the battle of the labratory? ..if so,.. what's wrong with Sonic the hedgehog verses Doctor Robotnik?.. :notallthere:

 

With respect to both parties, I don't think they could. That's only my take, though. I'll be interested to see if history, by-&-large, disagrees with me, should one of these men completely annihilate the other.

 

Worst post ever.

 

If it upsets you, I rank it one of the greatest of all time. Are you upset? I think you are.

 

It was alright I mean,.. I understand the priority you have in mind,.. I dont mind burning America's standards back to a forcible neutral ground,.. but via cheap means?..The uniform of the illegal alien invasion marching behind thier leader into enemy territory, what would it be?.. A swarthy skull-cap with dinstinctively enlarged brow and cheek bones.. ... therefore it is...twisted priorities Irishman,..

 

Are you admiting to being a troll? ::

Going back to your post I think I've read worse by Double L. But not by much.

Top 5 let's say.

 

Do you think Floyd has never ever taken PED's?

You see, when you start a witch-hunt like Floyd and Oscar have done, everything has got to be wrong, and everyone has to be to blame.

This PED business is a snake that will eat itself.

 

I'd say yes. But Joe King has a point about Ali-Frazier 1. It was two UNDEFEATED heavyweight champions. Undisputed Heavyweight champion still has more status that P4P champion.

Nevertheless i say yes.

First time that the P4P #1 and #2 (arguable which is #1 and #2 to boot) in their primes are facing each other. Plus both are all time greats..regardless of what the haters may want us to believe.

Biggest fight ever.

 

:atu::atu::atu:

 

I don't think there's a precedent, no. It's an exciting fight. But on the downside, I don't think there's been a moment in boxing history since it's maturity as a sport where there' ONLY been two guys of Floyd and Pacs standard. And lets be honest, that's only why this is just so huge. Frankly, if it'd been 1980 and Hearns, Leonard, Duran, benitez & pryor had been around, neither man would even be at 147lb never mind about to collide in the epochal fight of the generation.

 

So now this PED issue is an evil bussiness that 'should've never been brought up'? I've never assured nobody is on PEDS. What I do criticize is when someone breaks the fight of the milenium because he refused to have blood taken 14 days before the fight. Moreso when he goes on to take the offer once the opponent took it out. It's fairly simple really, don't try to mask it with your eliptic BS.

 

This fight, if it ever comes off, would be the culmination, the final distillate, so to speak...of years of dis-information and propaganda. Tito vs Oscar was an unrefined and shambolic pre-cursor of Mayweather-Pacquaio. At least Tito started his career at 147. Neither of these midgets has.

What has happened to boxing since the mid 1990's is that the sport has irreversibly proceeded towards such a state where perceptions and states-of-being count more than anything else.

It is boxings equivalent of market forces, where integrity and tradition count for squat, and where dollars, bluster and posturing count for most. Everything is about the big face-off, the big show-down, the big count-down, the big PPV body count etc.

It is less and less about the legitimacy of the titlists and their claims. Consider the recent rehabilitation of confirmed cheat, Antonio Margarito, as the #2 contender to the WBC title at 154. Totally unwarranted. Totally undeserved. But where the shallowness of the talent pool meets the depravity and stupidity of the audience, bad things happen.

Just as Mohammad Al Fayed would never have been received at 10 Downing Street in 1960, it seems as unlikely that Floyd Mayweather and Emmanuel Pacquiao would have been offered these sums of money at any other point in boxings history.

I have documented extensively the collapse in the standard of the welterweight division, I dont intend to repeat it here. It is a foul state of affairs, and has been now for some time. The division has not seen a single unified dominant resident champion for 20 years. If not more. The title, like Jesus clothing amongst the Roman soldiers, has been broken up and divvied out amongst countless inferior pretenders since that last great calamity, Oscar vs Tito.

What we are witnessing is something that, perhaps, may be better understood, or understood better by more people, in years to come, than it is now.

Mayweather and Pacquaio are only one part of the equation. This is now a much bigger matter, with people like Golden Boy trying to corner the sport like it was some sort of a commodity market. He controls the rankings via Ring. He controls drug-test policy via Mayweather. He controls fights via his referees, like Joe Cortez.

A mess, in short.

But if you want to think it is the biggest thing ever to happen to boxing, sure, go right ahead.

 

Oscar De La Hoya has used the PED issue, and Mayweathers perceived worries, as a stepping stone to granting himself more and more authority over what is an increasingly shallow pond. In effect, Oscar wants to be the only kingfisher on an increasingly barren pond.

20 years ago, it would have been inconceivable, utter inconceivable, that the talent pool at 147 proper would have been such that former 117 and 130lbrs would have been able to not just occupy the top two slots in that division, but would have also commanded the authority to import their opponents from south of 147, and pass these bouts off, in return for millions of $, as legitimate welterweight fare.

One of these guys wont even make the weight, and buys himself a massive advantage, augmenting an already significant advantage over his former 126lb opponent. Another of them makes his opponents meet him at 145 in the interests of "parity"......

....and then, thrown into the mix....is the attempt to impose, arbitrarily, and without any common sanction, a foreign and hitherto alien set of drug-testing procedures.

These guys have financially profited from the the scam they weaved, and then, when it got too big for them, they sought to have it reined in.

Like I said, this snake eats itself.

 

There's nothing so sociologically interesting at play here. Just the straight forward drying up of a sport who's time's passed. You're right that a superfeather & a flyweight could never have been the greatest welters of their generation in any other time, but there's no deception in the fact that Pac & Floyd are the best welterweights and fighters in the sport by a massive distance.

edit* judging by the post after this, you agree anyway. You're abstruse, Im drunk.

 

Is there really anyone calling Mayweather & Pacquiao something less than all-timers? I find that difficult to believe...bothwill clearly have a memorable place in history, though I have seen both highly over-estimated already.

 

Then you answer the question yourself......for me...Soldiers Field, Tunney vs Dempsey, was a bigger fight than this will ever be. The final passing of the torch from the unrefined, brawling, colour-line years to the game we now know today.

But there were no rappers at that...no PPV head count, no lawyer fucks in New York, no measuring of Peni$ etc...so...what do I know.

I think the bitter, entrenched bigotry of the mainstream and online US Press is killing the ember of the sport.

Boxing, somehow, almost fluidly and without warning, has cut itself off from reality.

Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquaio are junk bonds that people are furiously buying in the hope that it turns the market around.

It wont.

 

No arguing with that.

 

Pacquiao would move up higher in the rankings with a win more than PBF would. I can see PBF in the top 30 all time at worst if he retires undefeated. Pacquiao could be in the top 10 with a win.

BOTH should be top 20 AT WORST with a win over the other. That's not overestimating them IMHO.

 

I think it is, or, rather, under-estimating the exploits of those who went before them.

Top-ten all-time for either is ludicrous, in my estimation.

 

And....not only that...follow it down to the logical conclusion...with Mayweather forced to stay at 140 or 135, challenges he made light of at 147 would have suddenly become far harder.

Hatton at 140 is harder. Marquez at 135 or 140 is far harder.

The greatness would have still been there to be had.....Floyd would have grown old and tight at the weight, and the challenges would have stacked up.

As it is now, he can flit around, taking the easier option, fighting guys at weights that suit them less, or when they are 38 etc.

And then, when even at that it gets too hard for him, he can throw out a drug angle.