Marquez-Vasquez 4 Perez-Mares

Tszyu won an Amateur World title, beating Vernon Forrest in the final. He won two, maybe three world titles and handed Zab Judah his first defeat.

And he quit on his stool against Hatton, which puts him right up there with Vazquez, Pep, Liston, Cerdan and other Legends Of The Corner Furniture.

The case for greatness is made.:nono::nono:

 

I'm not really familiar with your background here, but is there something to your repeated mentionings of corner retirements & Hispanic fighters which alludes to a past with other members here?

 

Oh, I have a past alright. You are cool in my book though RS. Be sure of that.

 

He's still pissed about Vitali getting flack for quitting on his stool while fighting an annoying gnat.

Sad thing is, most people believe Vitali redeemed himself when he fought Lennox Lewis, but for some reason Irish has developed a giant bug up his ass about the media and fan treatment Vitali received 10 years after the fact.

He must be reminiscing and reading old issues of Boxing Digest or something.

He's angry that big Eastern European white men don't get treated with the same respect as little Latin men. It's a strain of victimism he's had, going all the way back to the days of SecondsOut.

Every time a fight occurs in which another fighter fails to answer the bell he begins to have Vietnam like flashbacks of Vitali wincing in pain while the pesky media and internet bloggers flay him over the fires of public opinion, all the while taking glee in the fact they can right all the wrongs of past history by metaphorically subjecting the giant white man to a public lynching.

We just have to be patient with the poor lad and realize the Klit brothers have always held a special place in the Irishman's heart...............demographically, that is.

They are big and white..........yet they are not American or British. Because of this they are subject to unconditional love from the Irishman. We can not explain it, we can only accept it. It is a fetish of his, and it has been a constant for over a decade on these dear old message boards.

We believe this traces all the way back to the persecution the great underdog Ivan Drago, received at the hands of Apollo Creed supporters during Rocky IV. Irish was only a small lad then, but it has stuck with him ever since.

 

Mexican legends Julio Cesar Chavez and Oscar DeLa Hoya also quit in the corners.opcorn:

 

I would not call De La Hoya, "a Mexican legend," myself. He repulsed as many as he endeared himself to, rightly or wrongly, amongst Mexicans. While it's true plenty had much time for him, he was never a national icon on the level of a Chavez, Sanchez, or Olivares.

 

I can't remember but was Vasquez retired by his corner in the first fight or did he straight up say no mas? Or was it a situation where the corner/ref/doctor wanted to stop it and he didn't argue?

 

Someones welfare didn't come through this week........

 

He quit. How many fucking shades of quit can there be? Is he now to be rescued on a technicality of quitedness? I do remember the great Charlo Hegman in here deriding Vasquez for quitting.

 

Well said Noble. :bears:

 

Oscar had no tattoos, didn't beat the shit out of his wife, at least not publicly, won a lot of fights and beat the crap out of a lot of Mexicans. He even beat the crap out of Americans who wanted to be Mexican. I can see why he is not a "Mexican Legend".

 

Roach asked Vazquez if he wanted the fight stopped... Vazquez said stop it.

 

Que? :dunno:


I was only explaining your complicated psychosis to the dear gentleman that asked, while preaching tolerance of your much maligned condition.

I only want peace here at FightBeat.com. :nono:

My financial situation is none of your concern. If I choose to roust homeless hippies for their empty nickel containers of cheap booze, that is well within my rights as an American citizen. :bears:


However, if they are large white European men with a fetish for HGH, hugging and a slow jab that resembles a hovering, gravity defying tree branch, I will avoid them at all costs and let them keep their bottle deposits to cash in for themselves.

:kick:

 

Who has a slow jab? I'll tell you who has a slow jab...that American Idol Cracker O'Pavlik. They worship that slow bum like it was 1899.

America will just have to keep on scrabbling hard to find somebody to wipe those Golden Smiles. Any prospects coming through? Eh? Are you a big Sosnowski fan? Will he cut it for you if he pulls the upset? Probably not. How about Kevin Johnson? Sam Peter? Any of the boys?

Do you curl up in a ball with your teddy every night and console yourself with thoughts of HGH? ".....Its the HGH teddy, is all. Without it they would be nothing...." :dunno: I thought the usual American excuse pertained to height.....now it seems, via the son of a confirmed crack dealer, everyone that is not a Son of Michigan must be on gear.

 

Vazquez: "I cant breath"

Freddy Ped: "Are you sure"

Vazquez: "yes"

Freddy Ped "Are you sure" {I dont think Freddy trusts people}

Vazquez {Who cannot breathe, and yet is being made to repeat himself by Hall-of-Fame trainer Freddy Ped} : Yes.

Freddy Ped: {who justs insists on torturing this guy} "Wan me to stop the fight"

Vazquez: "YES".

And the speed and fluidity with which the Slowtime crew began to make excuses for this guy was nothing short of brilliant. I mean, talk about damage limitation.

"Oh, Al, darling, it just has to be the nose..he's a sincere guy, he obviously COULD NOT go on....". :shit:

Fuck you America. :flip::flip::flip:

 

What bothered me more was Vasquez' pre-fight comments about how he would die before losing to Marquez. Really made it a lot worse that he quit, despite a bad injury.

I have changed my view on the quitting thing a bit - I mean do you not consider Roberto Duran a great fighter? (mikE do not answer this question).

Was Arturo Gatti soft? He allowed his corner to stop the fight after 6 rounds with Mayweather. Joe Frazier was too weak to overrule Eddie Futch in the third fight with Ali....

Oscar De la Hoya? Julio Cesar Chavez? Vitali Klitschko?

 

Vazquez did something a lot of fighters don't do enough: he used his fucking loaf. He used his BRAINS. The smart thing to do was RETREAT. GET OUT. Vazquez was right to do what he did.


Fighters use this kind of language all the time...."Oh, I would sooner die"...yeah, sure. Nobody wants to die in there. They just want to get their W, collect their cheque and get ready for the next one.

What pisses me off is the blatant favouritism. I mean Showtime actually seemed happy that Vazquez pulled out when leading on the cards. They semed to be happy to make excuses for the guy. Ironically, there were none needed, there never are......but because Showtime had put as much stock and faith in this "On My Shield Or With It" BS they had to cover their ass after the fact.

Basically they were saying what we already knew- that quitting a lost cause is perfectly OK.

The revisionism is sickening. After Klitschko quit, he got unmerciful stick. But his quitting was followed by a series of high profile withdrawals, one of which involved Jesus Chavez quitting on his stool vs Mayweather.

Suddenly, the very people who had lead the charge against Klitschko found themselves revising upwards their opinion on quitting. They found it fit to admit what we already knew: that retiring is OK.

The list of Grade-A champions who have quit on their stools is quite long...and features names like Genaro Hernandez {who quit on his stool twice}, Jesus Chavez, Donald Curry, Samuel Peter, Marcel Cerdan, Willie Pep, Sonny Liston, Jose Luis Castillo, the aforementioned Vazquez, Junior Witter, etc.

 

I'm actually a fan of Vitali, but I'm also a fan of riling up the Irish.

Which to pick, which to pick?


::

 

Come on, give us another few one-liners about HGH...go on, say something concrete...

 

And none of those fighters are good?

 

I'm sorry I besmirched your hero Irish. He didn't deserve it, and neither did you. :nono:

 

Jesus Chavez didn't quit - his trainer (Sheilds) stopped the fight.

Irish, you forgot to mention Duran, who also quit.

 

Of course they were good. Thats the point. What had Vitali done that hadn't been done before? People quit, all the time. Fighters never quit from a position of strength. If they were in a position of strength, they would not quit.

The papers make such a big deal over how a fighter can be leading on the cards, and is "In control...why did he quit...all he had to do was see out the 9 minutes"....which is a goofy rationale.

No fighter who has lost control of a major limb can be said to be "in control".

There is nothing wrong with leaving the table when the odds have irreversibly turned against you.

 

So this comment is meant to be sarcasm?

 

Yep. Duran quit. So what? He went on to bigger and better things and was named in the Ring Magazine top 10 fighters of the Century.

I think Duran's quit job is about as disgraceful as it gets and risking self-contradiction I contend that Roberto had prepared badly, had not managed his weight, and quit ostensibly because Ray Leonard was making him look bad.

There is a difference between quitting in those circumstances and quitting because your nose is broken, your ribs are broken, you arm is hanging off etc.

That said...this is the plain exception to the rule and it might not even be an exception at that.

 

Eh....yes. ld:

 

I'm disappointed in you Irish. Dymipepel kept up a similar facade for years. You broke down in a matter of days.

ld:

 

Well, I disagree with the idea that if a fighter quits he somehow can't be great. The way I look at it, there's many ways to lose in boxing, and quitting is one.

So I bring up Duran mainly as an example of a indisputably great fighter who quit.

 

The circumstances were a little screwy. Roberto quit cos he didn't fancy fighting, period. He just seemed decidedly not-up-for-it and went home. He had not suffered a major injury. He was just being made to look goofy, so he packed it in.

 

Well, in my mind, it's as good a example as any to demonstrate that just because a fighter quits, it doesn't mean he can't be great. Or that he has no heart.