Where does Ivan Calderon rank among the best Puerto Rican fighters of all-time?

Really? I dont know he did pretty good against one of the biggest punchers in history Thomas Hearns. Styles makes fight's and Benitez would have been a NIGHTMARE against any of the Mexican fighters you mentioned.

 

he "did pretty good" against Hearns by doing his best to not get hit too much, which also meant taking few offensive chances, which in turn meant losing by points instead of KO

Benitez's other worldly defensive skills were what allowed him to succeed to the extent he did but he had an awful chin

Bruce Curry punched about as hard as my sister and he HURT Benitez a lot, knocked him down three times in their first fight

 

I could see a draw against Hearns for Benitez. No way,no how was it anything close to some kind of domination.

I agree with the notion Mexico's elite forces trump Puerto Rico's, but I am hard-pressed to find a Mexican between 140-154lbs. all through history who I would favour to best a Benitez at the top of his game.

 

I think that could be one sentence by itself

seriously

how many great mexican fighters have their been who weighed more than 140 pounds at their best?

If that's where Benitez has to hang his hat in this discussion, it's pretty sad

as for Hearns/Benitez, you really think Benitez won 7 or more rounds in that fight? when? was this happening when he was looking at Tommy's jab for half an hour?

 

You kind of have it backwards, at least in terms of lineage. Serrano's reign was legit. Arguello is undoubtedly the greater fighter, but he never won the lineal championship at 130. His reign traces back to when the title was splintered. I know what you're saying, but at some point, the term "Paper Champ" has to be clarified and not just used for the sake of demeaning a fighter.

As far as the original question goes...

Skill-wise, a case can be made for Calderon being the best. Accomplishment-wise - he's never had the right opposition to justify such a lofty ranking, but is still easily Top 10 all-time among the island's very best.

 

Very well said. I agree:bears:

 

who's a better fighter? cazares or alvarez?

i think overall, finito had much better opposition, but if comparing top notch opponents, i think calderon's win over little el temible cazares is slightly more impressive than finito's win over alvarez.

 

You need to rewatch that fight. After the questionable 'knockdown' on round five, Benitez came out more agressive in round six and Hearns hammered him hard, but Benitez did not went down. On the other hand, in the second half of the fight, on round ten, right after the non-official knockdown of Hearnsin round 9, Benitez went toe-to-toe with Hearns and guess who was backpedaling at the end of the round? Hearns! Hearns spend the rest of the fight mostly on his bicycle and jabbing, avoiding the more agressive than usual Benitez.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZRP_-A1FUUA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZRP_-A1FUUA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

Benitez was awesome! I consider him the Greatest Puerto Rican fighter of all-time at his peak! :mj:

 

Shannon Briggs was the linear champ, too

that means fuck-all to me

the BEST 130 pounders when Serrano was around were Arguello/Escalera/Everett/Chacon/Boza/Limon/Navarette

Serrano, NOT coincidentally fought none of them

if a guy is "the champ" and fights none of the best guys in his division while other guys hold a "championship" and fight those guys, then he fits "paper champ" even if its not in the original spirit of that term

 

</P>

You can not be serious right now

First off, Hearns CLEARLY stumbled and full without ANYTHING landing... that was NOT A KNOCKDOWN, I dont care how Puerto Rican you are... ANYBODY can see that

Secondly, this hilarious gem from you:

"On the other hand, in the second half of the fight, on round ten, right after the non-official knockdown of Hearnsin round 9, Benitez went toe-to-toe with Hearns and guess who was backpedaling at the end of the round?"

Did you even watch the clip YOU POSTED?? After Hearns FALLS DOWN (not KNOCKED down, FALLS down) he gets up, the ref wipes his gloves off and the round ends before either man can even approach the other... this "event" where Tommy backpedals from Benitez NEVER HAPPENED, its right there in your own clip for fuck's sake!

Finally, it is clear to anyone with eyeballs and a working knowledge of boxing that Benitez was trying to get Hearns to come to him when he was on the ropes so he could counter off of them (somethng he excelled at, obviously) and Hearns, knowing damn well he could just stick his jab in Wilfred's face and win the fight without doing that, refused to play that game, FORCING Benitez to be "more aggressive than usual"... he had no choice because outboxing Tommy wasnt an option... its a testimony to his great defensive skill going forward or backward than Benitez didnt get badly hurt at any point in the fight... it doesnt change the fact that if you got enough clean shots on Benitez you hurt him... it happened numerous times in his career... Bruce Curry hit like a girl and dropped him three times, for crying out loud

 

I clearly wrote "on round ten, right after the non-official knockdown of Hearns in round 9". Hearns 'knockdown' was as legit as Benitez knockdown in round five: feet tangled while backpedaling after what seemed like a wimpy punch. The difference? Benitez was counted by the ref while Hearns only got his gloves wiped. But you can see Hearns backpedaling at the end of round 10 after they went toe-to-toe. My point is that you argument that Benitez played it safe not to get KO by Hearns is just a lot of crap. Benitez had a weak chin? Sure! But not as bad as Hearns who got KTFO a few times cold in his prime. Regarding the Curry fight: so what? he still won! Besides this was an 18 year old Benitez who really hated to train and hated boxing. It was his dad, Goyo Benitez, that was forcing him to pursue a career he didn't want. In the Curry fights as well as the Harold Weston one, it was documented that Goyo Benitez had to slap his son a few times in the corner and threaten him if he lost the fight. Unlike the papa Trinidad wake up slap, this was an anger slap from Goyo. Wilfred & his dad had this dysfunctional relationship that ended in their total rupture of ties years later until Goyo died. Goyo milked the cashing cow ($) and then didn't give a damn about Wilfred when he became bankrupt and ill.

 

that's really the end of the conversation right there. A single opponent doesn't make or break the discussion when comparing resumes, especially when you yourself state claim that the accomplishment is only slightly better.

And for what it's worth I disagree. I thought Lopez - who was probably further along in his career in 1998 than Calderon was in 2007 - looked better in the Alvarez rematch than IB did in either fight against Calderon.

But even at that, take away Alvarez and Lopez still had a hell of a career. Take away Cazares, and Calderon is a great boxer with a paper thin resume. There's the major difference.

One thing I will say is that I've always admired the fact that Calderon has been as successful as he's been for all of these years while having to solely rely on pure boxing skills. Lopez was the consummate boxer-puncher and also generally bigger than nearly everyone he faced. IB is an itty bitty dude who can't punch at all, yet has managed to remain unbeaten after all of these years.

 

Good post!

 

where was Hearns backpedaling in round 10??? show us the exact time it happened... you are making shit up

as for the Curry fight, he BARELY won and it was BRUCE CURRY KNOCKING HIM ON HIS ASS THREE FUCKING TIMES

in the rematch, he was AGAIN hurt and pushed to the limit, earning a majority decision

this isnt DONALD Curry, its BRUCE CURRY

if Benitez was named Jermaine Jefferson, we arent having this conversation because you wouldnt be trying to say he didnt have a shaky chin and you certainly wouldnt be trying to act like Tommy Hearns was running away in round 10

this is solely due to the fact that its a Puerto Rican fighter we are talking about

like I said, you think Sam Serrano was the real deal (again, because hes from Puerto Rico and nothing else)

your opinion is forefeit based on that and based on the fact that you are actually making something up that didnt even happen while having the audacity to post a video which proves it didnt happen