Best offensive fighter of all time:Roy Jones Jr

Also, Robinson was just a product of a ahead-of-his-time training regime. He unfairly conditioned his hands by beating on his wife all day.

 

I hear that you are a jackass who doesnt actually know anything about any fighter who existed prior to 1995

like Dempsey being stopped on cuts, eh?

 

:: it's a joke dude...

 

Hearns beat Benitez and defeated Duran in the most emphatic, spectacular way imaginable... those are better wins than any Roy Jones win

Arguello beat a decidedly on-his-game Ruben Olivares, twice beat the daylights out of Escalera, flat out HANDLED each of the four top Jr. Lightweights post-escalera (Chacon, Navarette, Boza, Limon) when all were at their peaks, hammered the crap out of Mancini... those are clearly better fighters in aggregate than Jones faced

and Robinson? well, we wont even go there, its not even a contest in terms of oppositon

as for Robinson's KO percentage, first off the lion's share of those "double digit losses" occured (THIRTEEN OF THEM) occured after 1960 when the man was clearly WASHED UP... if you end Ray Robinson's career at the conclusion of 1959 (at 38 years of age and NINETEEN years of fighting) his record is 142-6-2 (92 KOs) ... which paints a MUCH different picture than the one you are attempting to paint with the "double digits" remark... when you fight good fighters a LOT, you aren't going to get as many KOs, no matter how gifted you may be... do you honestly believe if Roy Jones had fought that level of opposition for 19 years (including taking almost three years off completely from the game) that he would have a superior record to that?

It was a completely different era, name one great fighter from that time, non-heavyweight, who was KOing people at a rate any higher than Robinson? ... it doesnt exist... you had to face tough opposition much more often than you do now, referees would let fights go on for an incredibly long period of time... it was MUCH HARDER to get KOs back then than it is in the last few decades... there are countless dozens of fights from back then that went the distance that would have been stopped by today's more safety-conscious referees... combine all of those elements and you are not going to get 142-6-2 (140) , you are going to get 142-6-2 (92)

my point is that at his best, when Robinson had to get a guy out of there, he came through at an alarming rate... against Randy Turpin, against Fullmer (in terms of the durability and status of the opponent, probably the greatest KO of all time) ... so he couldnt KO Kid Gavilan, nobody could!

what punch did SRR not throw well? the left hook was perfect to head and body and he could throw it long range or in the phonebooth... the right hand was heavy and sharp... the uppercut was a thing of beauty... and these punches were exceptionally powerful AND exceptionally fast... there have been better boxers, there have been harder one shot blunt power punchers, there have been guys with faster hands (though not by a whole lot) but there isnt anybody who combined skill, speed and power offensively as well as SRR did

 

Arguello is clearly a much better offensive fighter than RJJ, but I won't argue that SRR is better than him..

 

Besides Arguello was in color. ::

 

seriously, though, I would urge you to watch all the Robinson at 147 there is (not a lot, but its out there) and watch the the championship win over Lamotta... guy was a picture-perfect puncher

 

Hearns Beat Benitez & Duran @ 154, which Clearly WASN'T Either of those Mens Best Weights...Shit, Roy Jones Beat Mike McCallum @ 175, if that's the Case...

Roy Jones Beat Toney, Bernard & Virgil Hill @ their BEST Weights...@ WORST, that's COMPARABLE to Beating Benitez & Duran @ 154...Toney AND Bernard were BETTER than Ruben Olivares, in REED's Opinion...

Roy Beat Guys like Reggie Johnson & Antonio Tarver, who were AS GOOD as Escalera, Chacon, Boza, Naverette & Limon were, @ WORST...Honestly, Navarette WASN'T Any Better than Julio Gonzalez, Montell Griffin or Eric Harding...Arguably WORSE...

Say what U Want about John Ruiz, but WHEN Did Hearns &/or Arguello Ever GIVE AWAY 33 Lbs in a Fight???...

CLEARLY, Robinson's Resume SHITS on Roy's, but let's STOP Pretending that Robinson Dialed Up KO's on Command...He Didn't...Moreso, Robinson Fought in an Era where Gloves WERE NOT Padded to the Level that they R Today...Correct REED if he's Wrong, but he's Willing to BET that Ray Robinson NEVER EVER Fought in 10 oz. Gloves...

Look, REED ISN'T Trying to Equate Roy Jones to Sugar Ray Robinson, but the Gap btwn them ISN'T as CAVERNOUS as U Think it is, C-Doggy Dogg...



REED:hammert:

 

Tommy beat Virgil Hill when Hill was a lot closer to his peak than he was against Jones! (not that he was all that to begin with, anyway)

REED< it isnt just that he BEAT Duran... he ANNIHLATED HIM... NOBODY else ever came close to doing that to Roberto Duran... its not just a "W", it is an immense accomplishment

Benitez was still a very excellent fighter when Hearns soundlt outboxed him... its not like he was used up

you can not compare those to how old and useless McCallum was against Roy

and there is just now way that this is true:

"Reggie Johnson & Antonio Tarver, who were AS GOOD as Escalera, Chacon, Boza, Naverette & Limon were, @ WORST:

REGGIE JOHNSON??? For real??? Johnson had good skill and all, but at the very least Chacon and Escalera got a lot more done than he ever did and showed a lot more tenacity doing it... it is FIGHTing after all

And outside of beating a downsliding Roy Jones, Tarver never did much of anything in his career... hes gotten more mileage out of beating a guy who was ready to be taken (Jones) than just about anybody I have ever seen

Olivares did a hell of a lot more than Toney's lazy ass did and was every bit as skillfull... Hopkins? you may have an argument, because Hops was a spartan worker for almost his whole career and few have ever been as cagey

Im not saying Jones Jr. wasnt great, because I have always defended him (and you, my friend) from the sweeping generalizations of idiots but to me Robinson was a greater fighter and a better purely offensive fighter than Roy was

as for the gloves argument, I think any difference in the glove wieght is more than offset by the casual disregard of safety in those days and all of the other factors I noted earlier (constant fighting, more demanding opposition, etc)

Dude, you know I respect Jones and I think he was great

 

Joe Louis & Ray Robinson were so much more offensively devastating than Roy it isn't even funny.

 

I would have to say that Roberto Duran gets my vote. He had an offensive "attack dog" style, never backed up always calling his opponent out and testing them and the way he could whip his hands and head with precision was a beautiful thing to watch.

 

Yet how many good fighters did he KO? Virgil Hill with a FREAK (illegal) shot that he couldn't reproduce in 1000 rematches. Jones was not a devastating offensive fighter.

 

RJJ? The greatest offensive fighter ever? Top 50, maybe. Maybe. RJJ was way too afraid of getting hit to ever have been a great offensive fighter. You RJJ groupies have to work hard just to keep RJJ in the conversation as one of the greatest fighters ever - don't get greedy here and pretend he was one of the greatest offensive fighters. He simply wasn't.

 

NOBODY Beat Hill as Decisively as Jones Did...Just as U've Rightfully Credited Hearns for Doing the Unprecedented to Roberto Duran, Give Roy Jones SOME Credit for Doing Likewise to Virgil Hill...

NO, Hill ISN'T on Duran's Level as a Fighter, but he was THE DOMINANT Lightheavy of his Era, Whether he was BORING or Not...

U & Ol' REED Will have to Agree to DISagree on Tarver/Johnson Being on Par w/Or BETTER than Escalera/Boza/Limon, etc...



REED:mj:

 

:shit:

U Must Have Roy Jones CONFUSED w/Roberto Duran, who Won his 1st Title w/a BLATANT NUTSHOT on Ken Buchanan...How Many Good Fighters Did "Manos de Piedras" KO???...



REED:dunno:

 

RJJ & Virgil Hill: fighters with a lot in common - both the dominant light heavyweights of their time. Let's hear it for Virgil and Roy, two peas in a pod.

 

Enjoy your Librado Andrade Dvd Collection, Doub...



REED:boohoo:

 

It's not meant as a knock on Roy. It wasn't a deliberate illegal shot, Roy isn't a cheat......in fact frankly calling it illegal is completely unfair, because it was Hill who turned his kidneys towards it and it was an otherwise excellent shot.....but none the less the point is just that it was a bizarre, unreplicable shot. When that's your only KO against a B+ or above class guy then you aren't a devastating offensive fighter, full stop. He has the potential to be offensively dangerous when he needed/chose to be but it wasn't in his style/nature to be so.

Duran has nothing to do with this conversation, I'll resist the ever present temptation to jump his aid.::

 

::

I'm also going to compile soon a Rocky Juarez collection. The guy is a hunter. He hunts his opponent down. Hunts him I tell you. What other fighters out there hunt? Ah. An idea for a thread!

 

Too much hunting, not enough punching. Juarez might be the most boring fighter of the last decade.

 

I agree with you that when we discuss the best offensive fighters of the history, Duran shouldn't even be mentioned

 

I can understand he's not a favorite among fans, but most boring of the last decade? Did you see his first fight with Barrera? Or his fight with Barrios? Or with Antonio Diaz? Or his first fight with John, a fight of the year candidate? His knock-out highlight reels alone guarantee he can't be the most boring fighter of the last decade. How about his fight with Humberto Soto? Awesome fight.

I think it can be frsutrating to watch Juarez, especially if you're rooting for him. But boring? Please.

And just wait for his fight with Linares. It will be far from boring.

 

Yawn. Bitter fatty lover.:cheer:

 

Didn't Hill get a broken rib from that shot? Hard for that to happen if the shot was to the kidneys.

 

Duran KO'd Ishimatsu, De Jesus, Ray Lampkin was in the hospital for a number of days afterwards, he dropped Carlos Palomino at least once, Pipino Cuevas (at Junior Middle), Davey Moore (at Jr. Middle)...and a HORSE.

 

pretty gross thread guys

 

Not tough at all....Joe Louis is head and shoulders above the other two in terms of offensive arsenal.

 

Nah....there's an argument to be made for Joe Louis...and also for Mike Tyson.

 

Ah..finally someone with wisdom. :bears:

 

Anyway....it's between Joe Louis and Mike Tyson.

Both men had one punch KO power in every punch they threw: left hand, right hand, body or head. Both men had blazing handspeed. Both men were pin point accurate. Neither man would let you off the hook once you're hurt.