If Klitschkos fought each other which one would you cheer for?

I'd root for Vitali. Less cautious, tougher chin, tougher character, less hugging and leaning, better use of distance no matter how awkward he looks........and just a funner fighter to watch.

I used to like Wlad, but Sanders ruined him of ever being in an entertaining fight again. Yes, it improved him from a Won/Loss, defensively tactical standpoint........but it ruined him for the fans. He just turned into a bigger, stronger version of John Ruiz.

 

Vitali was by far the superior brother. It wasn't close.

Maybe an argument can be made in Wlad's favor now that Vitali is old, but it's still up for debate.

Rating Vitali based on his ugly style is sooo 2002. He might not look like he can fight, but make no mistake - he can.

 

Yeah and if somebody is knocked out by a headbutt like Torres was by Holt you have to factor it in. Lennox sliced him up with a missed punch, when the welds on the outside of his glove graced Vitali´s face.

 

Interesting. Vitali didn't have to throw another right in the fight to beat Byrd, but you give him a pass. Not sure I agree, but it's a solid take.

But a cut loss when leading is as definitive as a ko loss or points loss??? Come on, man. This is just a nutty proposition. Unless you are fighting Israel Vazquez, cuts are as much bad luck as they are anything. We all know this.

 

Vitaly

 

I believe it takes a boxer with the qualities of a Lennox Lewis to beat Vitali. Huge guys 6'5"+ with long arms, ramrod jabs and a lot of power. That's why I feel Wlad would be the ideal guy to take Vitali down(if they weren't brothers). Even though Wlad's toughness is questioned and rightfully so, he does possess very similar qualities to Lewis which would give Vitali a lot of problems. Wlad can jab with Vitali, he has enough power to hurt Vitali, he has good enough footwork and the ability to tie up when hurt. Even though people hate boxers who hold, Wlad uses it effectively. He'd be too big for Vitali to push off. Would be a good fight. I still think Wlad has the technical ability and punching power to carve up Vitali's face with his piston jab and brutal left/right combos. Whether Wlad could stop Vitali is another question. But the similarities between Lewis and Wlad are fair. If Lewis could give Vitali that much trouble, I can see Wlad doing the same. The only thing is Wlad wouldn't be rushing Vitali and looking for the KO the way Lewis did, he'd be finding openings and using his jab more effectively.

 

Oh Christ. Last fight Albert Sosnowski, now they're talking about Shannon Briggs next.

Maybe I change my pick to Wlad. :doh:

 

Which of the 3 cuts did that cause?

 

:bears::bears:glad I am not the only one making excuses for Vitali anymore
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Mercer was 800 years old, and Sam Peter (who is fucking AWFUL by the way) knocked him on his sorry ass 3 times

Wlad is chinny trash in the worst ever heavyweight division

 

:notallthere:

 

That bannana end is a little long, considering it's COLOUR!!!!

 

Thats not the ending. Just the beginning.:crafty:

 

In a situation like that, where you're an Irish-banana, you'd want ALLLL the Moor admixture you could get!

 

Lennox KO1 Wlad

 

They were going to make that fight. Then Lenny went down to All Africa and lost to Rahman. Oh well.

 

What's that got to do with anything? We were discussing who the superior fighter was and according to your argument because Wlad is so technically proficient he is superior to Vitali even though Vitali has never been put on his back by anyone.

How do you explain Wlad versus Sanders as compared to Vitali versus Sanders? Wlad didn't just lose that fight he was completely dominated to the point of helplessness. Had that been a street fight Sanders would have literally killed him.

You just stick to that argument of prettier technique being the basis of ones superiority, maybe it'll catch on yet.

 

Vitali saw the threat of Sanders from watching his brother get demolished and trained accordingly with a gameplan in mind and a lot of determination. Wlad went into the Sanders fight blindly and without a clue of who Sanders actually was.
Let's face it. Everybody wrote off Sanders as a has-been golfer with no future left. He shocked the hell out of everybody by smashing Wlad that night. Nobody saw that coming. From what I remember, Vitali and Sanders were slated to fight before Wlad/Sanders. The fight fell through. Could've been a very different story than their eventual meeting. Sanders might have shocked Vitali and it might have been Wlad coming for revenge instead of vice versa as it actually played out.

 

Which is quite obvious really, isn't it? At least, you would think it is.

LB4, you have attributed to my point about big brother's only major advantage being his durability by highlight, first & foremost, the fact he's never been put on his back by anyone. Neither was George Chuvalo, but Muhammad Ali cannot say the same thing. Being more durable doesn't make you the better fighter, & neither does being more technically proficient, more fluid, & more versatile --- but it helps to dominate the latter facets every bit as much as the former, & big bro is as robotic as they come.

Things happen, & upsets occur. This is, "The Theater of The Unexpected," after all, isn't it? Is it not fair to say little brother is superior to Sanders, in truth --- or do you hold to the idea Douglas was Tyson's superior, or more to the point, Byrd is better than big bro? Things happen, applecarts get upset, & plans go awry --- it doesn't necessarily guarantee one outcome is gospel. This is all before we've even touched on the subject of little brother having improved since then, which you apparently have either not noticed, or not cared to notice.

Look at it this way --- junior has the fragility of a crystal jaw. At any given time in HW history, there are punchers, even in this tepid pool of filth. Therefore, the risk is always there junior's chin could be exposed. Now, look at big bro's major weakness...is there anyone out there who fits the description to take advantage? There isn't...it's not to say he's better than little brother, just that lard-asses can still have a punch, but they cannot have fluid movement, quality, crisp handspeed & endurance all at an optimum.

I remember when the Klitschkos were new on the scene. There was scarcely a voice to be heard saying older brother was the better of the two. Why not? Because it was obvious from the early days he didn't have the same Boxing nous or sense of rhythm (not to paint junior as some genius, but it's all relative, & big bro is stiff enough to pass for rigour mortis). Only after little brother's frailties were exposed did big bro suddenly start receiving plaudits for, in truth, not a whole lot more than standing upright in the face of oh-so-tepid competition, did the consensus --- if you can call it that --- begin to swing.

 

Agreed, people shifted their argument to Vitali being the superior brother when Wlad lost to Sanders and when Vitali surprised people with his toughness displayed against Lewis. Nobody considered Vitali the superior brother until that turn of events.
I also think that if there was ever the perfect boxer with the right style and speed to smash Vitali, it would be Wlad. Looking at the similarities between Lewis and Wlad and seeing the damage Lewis did to Vitali, why not? Wlad can easily touch Vitali's chin with his jab because of his height and reach, he has respectable handspeed, great punching power(left hook/right hand), is able to tie up strategically, can't be pushed off or physically overpowered in a clinch and very solid boxing skills.
Basically Wlad is the perfect fighter to give Vitali the most amount of problems of anybody out there.
Also factor in how easily Vitali cuts. A single Wlad left hook would tear up Vitali's facial tissue. Vitali is comfortable against much shorter fighters, he's only fought one other athlete with the blend of size, strength and speed as Wlad in Lennox. Seeing how that fight went down, Wlad has a brilliant chance in making Vitali eat the canvas.

 

I could not agree more. Good point about big bro's skin, as well.

 

I'm fairly neutral in this argument. I have no real vested interest on either side. I'm just making an opinion on my observations. And my observations are that Vitali had much trouble with an out-of-shape 37 year old Lewis and was badly cut up, rocked, staggered and even needed to hold on to keep his composure. Not sure why Wlad wouldn't come in fitter and smarter and use his assets which he has plenty of and brutal punching power to tear some additional skin off Vitali's face. If I was Steward, I would also introduce Wlad to a new gameplan which is to attack Vitali's body. I saw Vitali back off when Byrd hit him with a bodyshot. Nobody has ever hit Vitali to the body(as a gameplan) since. Wlad could take the fight out of him. Body punching is really a lost art form.

 

what Corrie Sanders did to Wladimir he could NEVER have done to Vitali

what Lamon Brewster pulled off against Wladimir would never have happened against Vitali

Sam Peter, who is BEYOND TERRIBLE, dropped Wlad three times... never happen against Vitali

Ramonza, you bring up Chuvalo and Ali as a comparison... no, no, no, a thousand times NO

totally invalid comparison... with Wlad, we are talking about a fighter who has literally been turned to mush in the ring by a pair of NOBODIES... a fighter dropped by a lazy, useless lummox of a fighter three times... Ali was knocked down a handful of times, but he got off the deck and won emphatically... he didnt fall apart everytime somebody got a good shot in on him, he didnt gas himself in a few rounds... secondly, Chuvalo was essentially a willing punching bag, Vitali is much the superior fighter, much quicker hands, much better defensively... its a totally irrelevant comparision

Wlad is UNUSUALLY soft, UNUSUALLY vulnerable for someone at the world class level... he's arguably the most seriously vulnerable world champion since Terry Norris, shit at least Norris got knocked into oblivion by some good fighters, not some nobody like Corrie Sanders or Lamon Brewster

the gap in talent and technique is nowhere near big enough between the Klits to make-up for Wlad's papier mache' chin and half-empty gas tank

Carmen Basilio beats Johnny Saxton and Gil Turner and Ray Robinson, he beats Ike Williams and Don Jordan and Billy Graham... which one of those guys was not technically superior to Carmen?? they all were, but he beat all of them

there is so much more to boxing than just skills... what sport is a tougher test of will? Wladimir would have to show will to get past his brother, will that he doesnt have enough of... he'd have to show durability that he has never shown before

if it were all as simple as just looking beautiful and artistic, all of the great fighters in boxing history would look a lot more like Terry Norris than say Gene Fullmer... but we know what happens if they are in the same ring... Norris gets the piss beaten out him

 

if it had been Wlad in there with Lewis, he would have died the first time Lewis landed a right

 

People did place Wlad above Vitali a few years back. Some tried putting Wlad above Lewis back then. Both Klits were largely unproven at the time and Wlad hadn't had his shocking defeats at that point.

None of which matters now. Vitali is the better brother and would take a fight between the two in my opinion.

 

Might have been but I doubt it. Personally I think Vitali would have beaten Sanders whether he fought him first or not and likewise I think Wlad would have gotten pummeled by Sanders whether he fought him first or not. Its not that I'm just pulling that out of my ass like you did with the highlighted portion above, but rather going by history.

You see Wlad has shown a history of getting hurt by big punchers and Sanders was not only a big puncher but had size to match. Also this was way before Wlad had mastered his most important technique, the clinch, so that tells me all I need to know about Wlads chances, plus he didn't just lose that fight but got dominated. Also Vitali has shown throughout history that he's tough and will fight to the end dispite how much punishment his opponent is dishing out. Heart sometimes goes a lot farther than pure talent and if you need another example look no further than Zab Judah.

I guess we're supposed to feel Wlad got an unfair shake by not realizing Sanders actually came to win that night hunh? Am I suppose to just assume Wlad didn't actually train or something? Is it Sanders fault if Wlad took him lightly. Hell no, he's a professional boxer and he got his ass handed to him bottom line.

 

What kind of ridiculous point is that? Of course everyone thought Wlad was better because just like you they were going off of the crisper and better technique. However once Wlad started fighting decent but not great comp and started losing, people obvioulsy realized he was more style than substance a fact you still have yet to accept. You claim all Vitali did was stay up against tepid competition yet Wlad fell on his back against tepid competition.

Also don't try to sell me on Wlad's so called improvement. All that improvement is is taking less chances because his chin is no good, clinching a hell of a lot more, and avoiding any punchers which is a hell of a lot easier in this day and age since they're aren't any.

 

Yes, sometimes heart & will do go further than talent --- & sometimes they do not. As evidenced by little brother's better career achievements.

 

I am looking forward to replying to this, but I am a bit pressed for time just right now. Haven;t overlooked it, though!

 

Sorry to call you on this...but you have made a name for yourself down in the MM section, talking up the toughness of no-skills bums like Tony Galento, and emphasizing that their toughness and durability was what gives them such high standing.

Yet here you are talking down Vitali's chances- a man who is bigger, heavier, smarter and simply BETTER than any of the "old-time" black and white brigade that you seem to think so highly of.

In the meantime......Vitali is head and shoulders better in the technique department than most people give him credit for.