Chances are anybody who's ever trained at a boxing gym has had the coach shout that at them repeatedly. Mike Tyson and Winky Wright are examples of very good fighters who this applies to (though in Tyson's case it was because he consistently fought guys 6 inches taller than him) but here's a question: - has there ever been a really GREAT fighter in the history of boxing who kept their lead hand consistently above shoulder level?
12 views no takers! Seems like coaches should be shouting the opposite at novice boxers, no? :dunno: And commentators should probably stop prattling on about it, too.hno:
I guess in is the same as learning to play guitar like Jimi Hendrix. You have to know the basics before you can improvise. The difference is that when a novice fighter drops his left hand it means he probably has forgotten it and gets nailed, while a great fighter takes care of the defense in other ways. Also, it depends on who you fight, When Floyd got nailed by Mosley in the second round, he began to hold his left glove up and never got caught again
Yeah, Floyd's adjustment was brilliant. Contrast it with a guy like Malinaggi who was getting hit with the same freaking jab round after round against Khan but REFUSED to make the simple adjustment from pulling to parrying. I see where you're coming from but Im not sure the Hendrix analogy holds since Hendrix was extremely unorthodox - my point is a lead hand at shoulder level or slightly below is the orthodoxy with effective fighters. I just can't see the point in not having new guys learn the BEST way to do things from the outset. A few right hands to the noggin's a pretty effective teacher after all. They'll soon learn how to parry and to tuck their chin in, use their shoulder properly, slip etc. Just a random thought/observation that popped into my mind, I don't have any real follow up point or agenda coming... though the commentators really should shut the fuck up about it, especially English ones.
Alexis Arguello, Antonio Cervantes, Carlos Zarate, Lupe Pintor, Floyd Patterson, Jose Torres, Marcel Cerdan, Carlos Ortiz, Ruben Olivares, Rafael Herrera, Lionel Rose, are some of the greats that come to mind. I've been working with Chris Henry on the exact same thing you mentioned, as Tuesday and Thursday I had that left hand taped up high as Shumenov is going to be looking to come over the top with it with his own rights. Good question. Karl
Patterson & Torres were two that came to my mind as well, being D'Amato proteges. Arguello's a great one, and you'll notice he varies his hand placement a great deal. I'd actually say now that I've spent 5 minutes focusing on it, that he varied his lead hand placement not only depending on range but most impressively based on the weight distribution & body angle of his opponent. You'll see it pop up when his opponents weight moves back off the lead foot to a position where he can shoot a hard right again, or if he closes off his body angle to give the right torque. It's amazing the details you notice about top level guys when you look for them. But you're absolutely right that he carries at chin level a good percentage of the time. Ditto Olivares. Excellent examples.:bears:
I see your point. Vitali holds it low. Lennox Lewis had a low left. Ali's fucking left was down by his hip half the time. Steve Collins kept his hands up quite a bit.
Forgot about Collins, he really did hold his guard up, good fighter, but I never liked him going all the way back to the amateurs. He just didn't have that real knockout power to me as I prefer punchers, but he did do everything by the book nicely. Julian Jackson is another one that had really nice form and was technically correct, held his hands up nice and high. Back to Olivares, a good reason he knocked out an undefeated Bobby Chacon was that he frustrated a lot of Bobby's efforts to land that big right of his as he blocked many of them with his left up high and countered hard to Chacon's body, thus weakening him and setting him up for the knockout.
Good one. Light Heavyweight Champion Harold Johnson was another one, beautiful style from his boxing stance, also; Emile Griffith kept his left high, frustrated Monzon's attempts in large part, and Bernard Hopkins did the same to Trinidad.
tszyu didn't keep his hands up, at all. Abraham will be one. Winky. Probably lots of greats can be named. Of course, part of being great is not needing to do everything by the book which is why a lot don't. It certainly seems a lot easier to avoid punches altogether when your hands are down, it just makes for cleaner shots when they do land.
Abrahams will never be anything better than a B+ fighter precisely because of that shop window shutter defensive style, IMO. It's primordial. He can't integrate defensive and attack AT ALL, like some sort of rudimentary binary processor 'defend; swing; defend; swing'. I think he's a skilled observer of opponents patterns and he sets things up & sets traps skillfully but that element of his game will always be his downfall.
How do you figure Tszyu didn't keep his hands up? He did. Watch boxing much? And I think you're misled when it comes to avoiding punches with your hands down. The point is, when your hands are up, you don't have to rely on avoiding punches because you can block them - with your hands. Could that be why it seems easier to avoid punches with your hands down?
Tszyu kept his hands at various heights, true, but usually about 12 inches+ away from his face. Im not sure Tszyu is a good example of 'keeping your left up' (not in the sense I meant anyway). More out than up.
Kilrain if you are going to be an "above it all" twat who is so "over this whole boxing thing" you could at least spell a guy's name right
Ah! But you actually knowing how to spell it right is only proof that you're, like, a Bert Sugar loving, like, moron....or something. Bert Sugar! Boxers before 2001 are stupid! Bert Sugar!
No, he didn't. And yes, I've seen a little boxing. Refer to highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i210Jp8KbJ4 His glove is always down. More than most fighters. He was a horrible example. And I said "altogether" for a reason.
