Vitali vs Shannon Briggs?

Very creative use of the word "prime" ::

I always like Young as a fighter. But he was hot and cold...there was no middle ground. When he was on, he was a very good fighter..but he also had some dreadful performances as well.

 

Yeah, Ali was hardly doing great at that time... Manila changed him for good, and the natural march of time did the rest... still produced some excellent moments (suddenly exploding with a barrage to stop Ron Lyle, making a terrific comeback in the third Norton fight even though I still say he lost, and of course his remarkable show of toughness and resilience while absorbing the bombs of the best Earnie Shavers that ever got in a ring... and of course, the nice title recapture in the second Spinks fight) but he was well past his prime against Young and was out of shape, clearly not taking the challenger very seriously

 

It's not creative use, it's a flat out stretching of the truth for the purposes of giving Young credit for holding his own against the best HW's of the 70's.

A 1976 version of Ali is not the best, 2nd best or 3rd best version of Ali but it also wasn't quite the Berbick version yet either. The real issue with Ali beyond age and interest was that he was plain fat for the Young fight.

 

At least you can admit when you're purposely not being truthful. Good for you.

Ali was well past prime, not especially motivated and out of shape against Young. Young had the opportunity to take the title from this Ali, but he didn't come up big when it mattered.

 

Yep. Ali was clearly on the slide at that point in his career, but he was still capable of seizing the moment when he needed to.

 

Ali could not seize the moment, though, against Young. He lost that fight quite convincingly, IMO.

Fair play, though --- Ali was a shot fighter, entering the ring at his career heaviest weight (to that point, if memory serves), & was more than a little disinterested. Some people will criticise Ali for this issues, but I don't know. He'd done an awful lot to that point. I tend to give him a bit of a pass for this one.

No passes for the officials judging the fight, however. That wasn't incompetence --- that was out-right corruption. The decision stank the house out.

Young to Ali after the fight...

"We know what happened, don't we?"

 

Too fast...to the buffet table, perhaps.

 

Young did no such thing in his rematch with Shavers. The decision was highway robbery. Young beat Shavers hands down.

 

Back then, you weren't going to take Ali's title by beating him, either. That's what Young did. That's what Norton did. It wasn't enough.

 

I've never thought Young won that fight. Karl is right, Young made Ali look bad, but he didn't win. Norton, on the other hand, should have gotten the decision.

 

And yet somehow Leon Spinks did.

 

He was older still then, though. Everyone knew he was on the way out, making him more vulnerable to objective judgement of his fights. Even laying on a pretty one-sided fight, Spinks only received a Split.

 

Fuck off and spam someone else's thread you wankers....::

 

When hut hut made the original comment--the one I responded to, he referred to any weight, he did not refer to heavyweights only. Not sure if cdogg stayed on that track.

See here:

 

:jaw:

 

I disagree... Young should have had numerous points taken away for ducking his head outside the ropes... a clear infraction... if the referee had done his job, the judging would have been irrelevant

 

::

 

Agreed.

Mills Lane, for instance, would have disqualified Jimmy.

 

Indeed

 

It's also an infraction to hold behind the head. How many points would Ali lose for that during the 70's?

At any rate, the judges are required to follow the ref's lead. If he doesn't deduct points, they cannot --- & scoring that fight round-by-round, I can't see any way Ali could be deemed the legitimate winner.

 

You're preaching to the choir. I would have given the nod to Young in that fight as well as the Ali and Norton fights. But I am biased.

Truthfully though, most people including me and my father thought Young clearly won the second Shavers fight. But when I watch it now, without the bias, it looks a little closer. Much like Young did in most of his big fights, he reacted poorly when he got hit. His lapses always looked like he was reeling from a devastating shot. And the perception of Shavers' power made it look even worse.

Nevertheless, even with my bias-colored glasses off, I still score it 6-2-2 for Young.

 

Where is the video for their return bout located so folks can score it for themselves?

Thanks,

Karl

 

I recently rewatched Ali-Young, and although I scored it for Young closely, its one of those fights where you don't really care that the guy who probably won lost the decision IMO. In fact, that wouldnt be a bad thread, guys who were probably "robbed" but didnt elicit much sympathy.

 

Well, I have no real quarrel with your scoring 34 years after the fact as it does not matter in the least, but when that fight went down, Young snatched defeat from the jaws of victory from the judges as he was so scared of The Champ, bottom line, bro.

No fighter WILL EVER garner a World Championship by ducking out of the ring.

Karl

 

no doubt karl, hence the lack of sympathy, although i did think he edged it

 

This is besides the point of the fight --- & it's something sympathisers of Ali's are only too fond to bring up. There is no such outcry when Ali holds behind the head literally hundreds of times in fights. Hundreds.

Scoring that fight by the rounds, Young beat Ali pretty convincingly --- & it is a complete aside to the scoring of the fight that Young fought in the manner which he did.

 

Your screen name is as stupid as your analysis is of this particular fight, fella.

Karl

 

^^^PERSONAL ATTACK

 

You will notice I felt your analysis of Pryor-Ambers was pretty stupid, but our responses differ. It's worth noting.

My view of the fight is stupid, then? There's an awful lot of people who side with Young or Ali in this fight...you seem to be implying Ali won easily enough to call anyone saying Young won it, "stupid." That doesn't bode well for your scoring abilities, it has to be said.

 

You best stick to typing and reading books, fella.

I doubt you have any background in the art whatsoever.

Quit ruining this thread as well.