Martinez-Williams II "Likely For Atlantic City Oct. 2"

http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2010/08/01/sergio-martinez-paul-williams-likely-for-atlantic-city-oct-2/

Lem Satterfield:

 

I heard the Martinez people wanted Angulo but HBO rejected it. I'm glad this fight is being made. I want to see Paul make the necessary adjustments and win more clearly this time although I like Martinez in this fight. He's the more consistent fighter and even though he's old it seems like he's getting better every fight.

 

Paul is underrated these days, and Martinez is somewhat overrated,.. just because Paul takes the odd pan upside the head, it should be seen more as a celebration of his style than it is an eye-sore or a turn-off, Martinez can land as many as he may wish,... but...he'd better land more than Paul does,..:crafty:.... if he doesn't... Martinez will lose again and rightfully so.

 

Great fight. I had Martinez winning close but clearly last time and I expect the same this time. I won't try to second guess what will go on in the judges mind/wallet.

 

Rick Reeno at BoxingScene is saying Tall Paul's only two options from HBO are Martinez and Dzinziruk.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=29840

 

Dan Rafael says HBO is offering $3 million for the fight, but Williams doesn't want it split 50-50:

 

Well, over-rated/under-rated are over-used terms anyways, since you can use any "ratings" (official ratings, magazine/website ratings, someone else's ratings, or not even ratings at all, but just some posts on a message board) in order to come up with a "rating" which you can then critique.

Personally, I thought Williams was "over-rated" when I started seeing him elevated on pound-for-pound lists as rapidly as he was after wins over Verno Phillips and Winky Wright...both aging fighters, and in the case of Wright, a basically retired one.

He's a good fighter, who has some real natural advantages in the ring and who can travel the weight scale like an elevator, but as you say Paul takes punches "upside the head"...though we differ on how "odd" they are, I guess I think they happen more regularly than you do.

My opinion on how Williams is rated is that while there may have been a general reaction to drop his "rating" significantly following the Martinez fight, it was actually a correction that was probably appropriate, though certainly it can be taken to extremes in some cases.

 

Martinez is overrated, because many have fallen inlove with the flashy fringe fighter or counter-puncher,.. usually fighters like these are the best at preserving that precious '0' and therefore the road to being 'flawless' and unbeaten leads to these styles at the expense of sheer entertainment. When the irrefuteable principle of scoring is, if you land more punches you win the round, no amount of slickness, strut, showboating, poise or movements from an older era, trumps this principle. If you land less, you better hurt your opponent, if you land a 'quick punch' thanks to perhaps a gift in handspeed, it appears to most that it's the chosen blow that invokes a longer impression than the clean blow delivered with less handspeed,.. now it's a popular myth to believe the flashy punch was the harder shot, which makes Spinks a monster and someone like Pavlik a weak tortise,.. so no,.. you got to visibly hurt your opponent, because there is no real measure to how hard punches can be when you land far less. Thus, Williams... was a clear winner over Martinez, thankfully the judges agreed, I wouldn't want an all action style like Paul's compromised because it's better to run and cover than to have an honest and entertaining brawl, he was the aggressor, focused sheerly on the knockout, glad he exists.

 

I'd have a really hard time saying "No, I don't want 1.5 million dollars"

 

Williams throws punches indiscriminately, there's no considerable value to most of his punches, individually. Therefore he relies on quantity not quality, and with that style, he leaves himself open continuously to counter-punches, and because he's primarily offensive, he gets hit more flush, and he's often coming into the punches...the knockdowns they traded in the first round demonstrate that.

Williams got caught clean, Martinez went down from glancing blow to his shoulder.

 

1) No.

2) No. Who lays the most hurt wins the round. That that's subjective is unfortunate, but allot less unfortunate than turning pro boxing into the glorified mindless tag match which amateur boxing has become. 2 clean, well times shots are usually more hurtful and thus better than 3 half landing, arm punch scuffs. And they were in Williams-Martinez for mine.

 

Agreed.

 

You'd think that'd be a pretty nice payday, but then maybe this is a trend with some of the "house" fighters HBO's decided to showcase for so much of their early careers....Berto balked at the split he was offered against Mosley, and Mosley's camp moved on to a Mora fight...and of course HBO eventually followed.

HBO should let some of these fighters go to Showtime or wherever else they think they can make better money, but we'll see if they stick to Martinez or Dzinziruk for Williams here.

 

If you block more, and land more, you win the round, and how does one measure 'puttin more hurtin' on his opponent, especially when Williams landed more punches?.. and judging by the later rounds, wasn't it evident that Williams was the less discouraged and the less hurt seeing as how he came on strongly and Martinez slowed down, how could that be possible if Martinez was putting all this hurt on him?...somehow did Martinez break Paul down systematically with these hurtful punches?.. how does someone measure who is hurting unless they wobble or drop?.. If their legs dont buckle, if they dont cover up in a ball or if thier body language doesn't suggest they're hurt, they're not hurt,.. I do suspect it comes back to this 'faster flashy punches' = harder more hurtful stuff,.. which is irrefuteably false.

 

Wait, so you're suggesting that there's no other factors as to why that would happen?

Is the suggestion that Martinez and Williams entered the fight as complete equals in every category? That's there's no difference in, say, their stamina?

Williams is 29, and can punch all day, even when he's been hurt, he can come back, as he showed against Margarito when he came back to win the last round that sealed the fight on the scorecards.

Furthermore, Martinez has shown fatigue in the later rounds of some of his fights, when his hands tend to come down more...even in fights he's winning.

 

:nono: You can't hold Martinez inferior stamina against Paul on the scorecards I'm afraid,.. It appears my 'gauging which fighter has been collectively the more hurt over 12 rounds theory' has been rejected, so........ without Paul, covering up or fighting in a discouraged manner due to a particular shot, or wobbling, or dropping,.. or showing absolutely no discourse to his rhythm or any type of indication in his body language to suggest he was hurting,... how....possibly, can you tell,.. that Martinez was hurting Paul more than Paul was hurting him?.. :scratcher:

Now, I am not saying,.. that the fighter on the backfoot, can't win rounds,.. if you look at Pirog - Jacobs as a good example,.. I gave Pirog 1 round, despite the fact he was the pressure fighter, he was thoroughly outlanded and outworked on the outside,.. so my criteria for scoring, has nothing to do with being a rockem sockem robot, but simply everything to do with landing more.

 

Steve Kim says it might be Williams-Dzinziruk, Martinez-Angulo:

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/main-lead/lateef-kayode-and-the-cruiserweight-conundrum

 

Well, I did deduct points from Williams every time Martinez dropped his hands...but I will not apologize for it.

 

Cleaner, harder punches of course. Your silly anti-American, pro-Euro Amateur robot fighter agenda is quite transparent here. This isn't a complicated business, this is just how pro boxing is scored and always has been. It isn't decided by compubox since all punches are not equally effective.

 

I agree that Williams has become an extremely overrated fighter.

I also think that Martinez would mop the floor with Angulo who seems to have regressed lately and looks slower than ever with his punches. A Pirog Angulo fight would be good and I'd pick Pirog in that one too.

 

I wouldnt mind that at all!

Martinez spanks El Perro, and Dzin will upset Paul.

IF the rematch does get made though... it makes sense to put Dzinziruk vs Angulo as the undercard.

 

:notallthere: Cat Stevens, per-leaaaaaase,.... all you revealed there, was YOUR agenda against pro-euro robots,.. Paul Williams is my favourite fighter, I don't know how many people realise that Martinez is a spaniard euro-enemy aswell, and Pirog is one of my favourite fighters, but the quick slick flashy desireable black american beauty... CLEARLY outboxed the Euro 3 out of 4 rounds... simply... because he landed many more punches. So here I am arguing in favour of two americans, and you let slip an accusation of Euro bias?... who do you have in mind, which particular Euro-robot do you think I have an agenda for? :scratcher: ...and since when do all europeans fight like robots?.. with your own revelation, it's you who's got some 'wrist slapping' questions to answer... :nono: ..

 

It may be Spinks-Angulo instead...according to Ryan Burton, Shaw's saying there's "a good chance":

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=29873

 

Steve Kim is now reporting that this rematch may be likely again, because Angulo's asking price was too high for a fight with Martinez.

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/main-lead/dawson-hits-the-road

 

Haven't seen any of Dzin..

What do you see in him that he can beat Paul?

 

Perhaps I misspoke, or at least with the wrong emphasis. The point is just you like amateur style fighters (a large percentage of whom these days are European) and dislike the classic Continental America's pro style. Williams isn't European, but he is an amateur style fighter for my money in that he pretty much just throws indiscriminately, with one punch being as good as any other. A guy like Pirog has a classic American pro style. Nationality intersects with your bias, but it isn't your bias (although, since, like Irish, reading socio-political undercurrents into everything seems a peculiar interest of yours, it requires a benefit of the doubt to not speculate to their being more underpinning it).

I'll readily admit to having the opposite bias.

 

Dan Rafael echoes Kim's comments:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=3911650

 

Doesn´t matter HBO will reward him with 500k for a fight with Bundrage. It´s amazing how these fighters play HBO. If a bum that draws a livegate of 1100 for his last fight, doesn´t want to accept a more than generous offer to fight for THE championship, I´d throw him out immediately. Let´s see if an off-TV/ESPN/ independent PPV gig with a livegate of 1000 people pays 750k. :notallthere::notallthere:

Dzinziruk must be very happy that Angulo killed a huge career making fight and payday for him at age 34.

 

Angulo figured the ass whuppin he was gonna get was worth a mil I guess.

 

He has a tight D, a superb southpaw jab, and is extremely accurate with good timing. I think he would punch holes in Paul's shitty defense. I'm POSITIVE the Dzin of a few years ago that beat Santos would at least. Shame that fight's not coming off though. Hopefully Dzin can land a big fight soon, while he still has something left in the tank.