From The Ring: "The Empty Seat Dilemma: Why So Many Top Fighters Can’t Sell Tickets"

William Dettloff, From the September 2010 issue of THE RING:

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2206/the_empty_seat_dilemma_why_so_many_top_fighters_cant_sell_tickets_/

Not sure there's anything terribly new in the article, but Dettloff talked to various people in the sport - including Mike Criscio, Don Chargin, Bob Spagnola, Don Elbaum, Mike Acri - in writing the article and quotes most of them in it.

 

"and top-ranked cruiserweight Steve Cunningham, who said to hell with it and took his business to Europe, thank you very much."

::

 

Cunningham has always been an uncle-Tom US-hating traitor, ever since he was caught waving a Polish flag at an Adamek fight amongst Slavs,..american journalists should smere him infinitely, mingling amongst the European enemy, now he's a Nazi-german house fighter,.. a HOUSE alright,..

 

Cunningham is an Agent-Provocateur of Uncle Sam, playing this "House" card, and laying in wait all the while, for bummish victims to emerge from the former Yugoslavia...:nono:

 

I downloaded the last round of Cunningham - Huck for a secret little indulgence, but when I heard of this news I wiped it off my fucken pc, as the intensity has now been removed from that exhibition of tantalising symbolism. I expect his appearance to change like that of the late Michael Jackson, and likewise, I expect him to do statistically white crimes, like that of soliciting small children, even if it's just to prove himself.

 

Look at Andre Ward. They kept him home, he didn´t have lots of HBOsure early, but he draws 15000-16000 people, because they built him up locally. Sure a gold medal helps but Bute and Pascal made it big in Canada. If the fighter works the local scene, identifies himself with the place, people will follow him, even if he´s not the most exciting fighter in the world. Chad Dawson has had two fights in the Northeast of his last ten. Most where in Vegas, California or Florida. Why is Dawson not competing in New York, Chicago, AC regularly?

American promoters don´t promote. Simple as that. Many promoters follow the HBO money, and try to keep as much as possible, instead of putting money into promotion. Oscar doesn´t really have to work hard for his money. A monkey could run G with the support of HBO.

 

That's the British model. Scott Harrison in Glasgow. Amir Khan and Hamed in the MEN, with Joe Cal in Cardiff, Manchester and Newcastle. Hatton in Manchester and Enzo Mac down the local meat packers union. Works a treat.

You know who it didn't work a treat for? David Haye.

 

Ward isn't quite that big of a draw, and in fact the novelty has already appeared to wear off. He drew a good crowd for the Miranda fight, and the Kessler fight came with the extra push of it being the first major title fight in Oakland in more than 40 years. But the fight with Green didn't particularly draw well.

I agree 100%, though, on your point about American promoters. Don King knows how to pull in a crowd, but how many tickets he actually sells versus how many are "donated" to various friends and organizations is another matter.

I didn't think much of this article, to be honest. The thing I dislike about Ring writers is that they get a point in their head and only quote those who they know will agree with them. Elbaum, Acri, Chargin - they're all different sides of the same coin. And Criscio is the last person in the world to ask. He has a decent eye for talent, but doesn't have a single bankable fighter in his stable. Angulo is the closest, but he has yet to establish himself as a draw anywhere (and obviously doesn't know his own worth).

 

It was funny he called out Haymon as an example for HBO´s bias. I could have thought of another name that shoudl have been mentioned, but I guess that wouldn´t have gone over so well with the publishing website.

 

I read somewhere that Warriors season ticket holders got some serious discounts on tickets to the Ward-Miranda fight...don't remember if I saw that in reports of the Kessler and Green fights.

Still, I think there's some validity to the talk of building up a local attraction, I mean, Ward's a gold medalist from Oakland and the Miranda fight was his first in the city...and he turned pro in LA and when he'd have fights in the Bay Area before, it was in San Jose, where Goossen put on that Night of Olympians where Ward was the main attraction. I mean, who the hell wants to drive down 880 in rush hour traffic on a Thursday night?

The Bay Area press gives Ward a ton of attention when he fights in Oakland, the SF Chronicle, the Contra Costa Times, the local television stations, etc.

I agree with your opinion on the article. It's interesting, when I saw the title some time ago I was actually thinking about going to a bookstore and at least reading it there if not buying it, but then I saw it on The Ring's site and read it, and rememebered why I don't read the magazine anymore.

 

Maybe we need a top fighter to come out of Buffalo. Joe Mesi seemed to do well there when he was active.

ray:

 

To do it, you need to find someone half Polish and half Sicilian.

 

Does Malignaggi have a sister we can hook up with Adamek?

 

It's a good point and one that's not lost on a lot of fight fans who live in areas where they'd like to see local talent fight.

There's a lot of reasons for it, one is promoters who sign talent and then don't promote them locally, taking them to places with casinos, like Las Vegas, Atlantic City, or somewhere off the map that has an Indian casino (and you want to look for a reason why boxing attendance has gone down significantly in a lot of places, look at promoters who took money to put fights at Indian casinos)....I mean, for the longest time, fans of Robert Guerrero had to drive or take buses from Gilroy to Lemoore in order to see him fight, and you're not getting a lot of Bay Area press down near Fresno, and you're certainly not buildling a fan base in the greater SF Bay Area.

Now, I understand, a fighter and his manager and his promoter want to get paid, and there's probably some quick money in taking dollars to fight at an Indian casino, but there's not a lot of room for growth in attendance and ticket sales when you're putting on fights in a venue that seats a few hundred or maybe a thousand...and it's an hour or two or three away from what is their strongest fan base.

 

Incredibly, the British model came under attack, from, of all people, British fight journalists.

They bemoaned the steady stream of average imports who were brought in to fight guys like Hatton and Calzaghe, and felt that British boxing was deteriorating into a feudal system where world-class fighters behaved like regional bullies, milking the crowd, and taking no risks.

In the end, Khan, Haye, Calzaghe and Hatton were/are forced on the road, sooner rather than later.

There is a fine line between local talent fighting often and maintaining regional interest on one hand, and winding up with a Joe Gamache vs Joe Schmoe in Connecticut or Rhode Island.

It's a question of balance.

 

TBH, who wants to pay to watch Chad Dawson of all people, sure he's excellent but much of his fights are bore.

 

Right now, you're still getting fights involving Joe Schmoes...you're just getting them with a small crowd and small Nielsen ratings.

 

Steve Kim has an article up on how poorly the last Lopez-Marquez, Marquez-Katsidis and Khan-Maidana fights have drawn in Vegas (all between 4,000-5,000).

Specifically talking about this weekend's fight card:

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/main-lead/right-now-it-shouldnt-happen-in-vegas-or-stay-in-vegas

 

The problem here though is not that the fighters aren´t draws, but rather that they aren´t draws in Vegas.

Khan/Maidana could easily draw between 10000-20000 in the UK or Argentina, probably more.

Katsidis in Australia? I have no idea how big he is, but I figure he at least doubles the 5000 with Marquez as the opponent.

JuanMa in Puerto Rico? The Marquez brothers in Mexico? Didn´t over 10000 watch Marquez/Vasquez IV in LA?

I´m sure Agbeko or Perez can be national heroes at home, without drawing 1000 fans in Vegas.

IBF champion Jan Zaveck can draw 10000 people at home in Slovenia, he fought in Germany on undercards in front of 500 for most of his career.

Zsolt Erdei has TV ratings in Hungary with over 50% market share, yet he´s fighting out of Germany and now on some undercards in the US, because the money is better.

License fees talk for fighters from small/poor countries. This is all about location. It is worrisome though that a lot of the top American fighters don´t have a homebase.

 

:laugh11:

Vitali did good numbers with Arreola down in Los Angeles, just as he did at Staples with Lewis, at MSG with Johnson and with Williams in Vegas. Heavyweights are dead ::

Khan doesn't have the crossover effect. He won't bring 10,000 people with him to a weigh in and he won't attract too much support from the Pakistani community in America, most of them have had their fill of hard fights in shitty venues, if you see what I am saying.

Khan needn't feel too down on himself about it.....the gate for Tszyu vs Judah was , IIRC, less than 2000 people.

 

::::

Laugh. Out. Loud.

 

Another big factor is the Ali act. By not letting promoters be pseudo managers, you screw up the incentive to invest in a fighter from the guys with the $ to do so.