Best Southpaw of all time

Agreed that he doesn't "clown" Pacquiao (Manny is still underrated by many it seems) but DISAGREE that Manny would stop Pernell.

Manny couldn't stop Marquez in two tries...please don't forget this...

 

Don't be facetious Sly.....Manny came as close to stopping the guy as he could have done without actually stopping him. He floored him three times and broke his nose. He basically beat the man so badly that he guaranteed himself a draw off pretty much just one round of fighting, and had they scored it right he would have won.

I am no Manny fan, but he did all of the above and then some.

 

Clowned was too strong. But he wins decisively.

 

I think Marvin Johnson deserves mention here.

The only Light Heavyweight to win the title three times, he was an all action, slugging southpaw who was never in a bad fight.

Flash Elorde reigned as the the Number One southpaw in boxing for a 20 year span.

Karl

 

With a decent referee, Elorde would have had his chances against even Saddler...

 

pacquiao cleaned up the 3 mexican greats except Marquez, having a draw and a close decision. That's enough to be on par with whitaker. beating barrera and morales by dominating stoppage. Then moving up and beating Cotto put him ahead of whitaker. The david diaz win was pointless and the hatton one too. it's up to him to beat floyd and be top 10 best ever.

 

That Hatton win was a sensation. As recently as twelve months prior, it was laughed at if someone suggested Pacquiao share a ring with him. When was the last time a former Feather champion knocked the Jr. Welterweight king cold?

 

AgREED.

How about the great Hall of Famer Vicente Saldivar?

He picked up where Flash left off.

The majority of these forum posters have no idea whom he was and what his considerable skill level was.

He was a textbook boxer/puncher who executed every move straight out of the book.

Karl

 

EUROPEAN People...GREAT Fighter, but Perhaps THE WORST Resume EVER, for an Admittedly Great Fighter....



REED:mj:

 

:giggle:

 

:scratcher:

Maybe if it was best at kicking SP's asses...

 

Moorer and Vasquez are two terrific picks.

 

:boring::boring:

The title says "Greatest Southpaw Ever" or words to that effect.....that whittles it right down. You can make a claim for Joe holding his own against the Greatest Fighters ever....throw in the word "SOUTHPAW" and it get's rather easier. That's all. He is one of the best Southpaws ever.

 

oblemeijas twice whupped chong pal park, who's one of the better 168 champs in history!

 

Park was nothing special, he benefitted from 168 being a new division and not exactly bursting at the seams with talented fighters.

That being said, Obelmejias wasn't a bad fighter, he was just in over his head against Hagler.

 

Its odd, retiring at the top of his game almost seemed to hurt Saldivar's long term recognition, it is as if people forgot that he was champion... and when he came back he was a lesser fighter (though he still won a title) and lost some fights which has distorted his legacy... at his best, he was a great champion

as for Flash Elorde, he definitely got jobbed, rules-wise, against Saddler, though in Saddler's defense, he was nearing the end of the line

 

I voted Whittaker...if Pac beats Floyd then he gets the nod. Calcrappy should not be mentioned in this thread.

 

:boohoo:

 

The answer is clearly Daniel Santos.

In all seriousness, Sweet Pea probably gets the nod here (even though i hate him), with Pac not far behind. Calzaghe absolutely should be in the discussion but should not be ahead of the aforementioned lefties. Hagler I think rates ahead of him, but not as much as you would think

 

Hagler ranks ahead of him but the gap, in my estimation, is closed by the fact that Hagler never made a move up and lost his last fight in quite disappointing circumstances. Joe Calzaghe has good wins over opponents who remain quite pertinent almost 2 years after Joe packed it in.

I can understand Joe not being liked and that is cool. He was not a likeable sort but he retired undefeated, won titles in two divisions and was an all round tough guy.

 

There's not a lot of featherweights that I would pick over a prime Saldivar.

He had great wind, and I think he'd beat either Pacquiao or JM Marquez, and would have given Sandy, Sanchez, and Pep very hard fights.

Always used to dive out of the ring into the arms of his admirers, like Evel Knievel did later.

Ayub Kalule and Maurice Hope were two of my favorites from the 70's, two terrific southpaw World Champions.

 

I will agree with a lot of that. You are counting it a mark against Hagler for not moving up, do you think that Calzaghe deserves much credit for moving up to 175? He fought former middleweight Hopkins and the Ghost of Roy Jones.

 

sssshhhh.... he's a white european

 

And in doing so did a lot better than another famous Southpaw, and natural 175lbr, Antonio Tarver. And he did it without any warm up shite, and away from home, in his American debut. I think it's a noteworthy win.

 

It's noteworthy in the context of Calzaghe's career, because that was his best win (for mine), but it was still a past-it (though not shot) Hopkins, & Calzaghe was dreadfully unconvincing in victory.

It's probably understable why some Americans are cynical toward a guy who claimed a fear of flying (ridiculous excuse-mongering, for mine) kept him from visiting Stateside, but he seemed to get over that when Hopkins was past-it & Jones was completely decimated. I'd have been more impressed with Calzaghe if he'd beaten better opposition (pre-America) because, frankly, he could have for one thing, & the rivals for much of his career were pretty ordinary.

Calzaghe was an excellent fighter (not, IMO, in the all-time great sense), & anyone who truly thinks otherwise is kidding themselves, if you ask me. However, he needed better competition which never came.

 

But we're not comparing Calzaghe to the MilkDud, when did he become any part of this discussion? I thought we were talking more about Hagler v Calzaghe. It's certainly a noteworthy win - even at his age, people rarely beat Hopkins and Calzaghe did.

I don't really see it as much of a feather in his cap for "moving up in weight" especially if you are marking Hagler down for not moving up... Calzaghe going up to fight a career Middleweight, and then the shell of Jones doesn't really make much of a difference to me in terms of his career and legacy

the name(s), certainly Hopkins moreso than Jones, mean a lot more than the weight class

 

U Can Make a Claim for Calzaghe as ONE OF "The Greatest Southpaws Ever"...But to Sit Here Bitching, Moaning & INSINUATING that he was on the Level of Sweet Pea Whittaker, Pacquiao or Hagler is SILLY....

It's Bad Enough U Turn Every Other Thread into a RANT about the Klit Bros, "Mex Boxing" (as U Call It) or Max Kellerman...But U're Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay OUT of your Depths Trying to Place Calzaghe on the Level of the Aforementioned Names....



REED:boring:

 

The FACT is, Calzaghe Made Roughly 20 Supermiddle Title Defenses, w/MAYBE 5 of them Being Meaningful...He Then Beat a 40+ Year Old Version of Bernard in a CLOSE Fight, then Whipped the REMAINS of Roy Jones...

"Ya'll Musta Forgot" that Calzaghe was DROPPED by Both of those Ol Fogies Though...So if U're Gonna CREDIT him for Beating "Pertinent" Guys, Tell the ENTIRE Story...

For a Change...




REED:boohoo:

 

I never tried to place him on the level of those names.:nono: I merely said Sly had a bad habit of making weak lists that he could improve on. I think Joe Calzaghe should not be lumped under "other"....he retired undefeated. Even Roy Jones said getting to 45-0 is hard enough, no matter who you are fighting.

And I would like to congratulate you on your recent, indirect acknowledgment that Pacquiao is not, in fact, on PED's.

 

Don't lie. Else what were you bitching about?

No point in including someone on a list in a poll if there's no chance they'll be considered an option as compared with the other members on that list. If you..like me...don't consider Calzaghe on the same level...then why complain if he's not on the list? ::

You're just bitching for the sake of bitching.