Mike Tyson appreciation thread!

Agreed.

 

:giggle::giggle::giggle:

 

Yeah, I remember him saying in an interview around this time that the third Bowe fight taught him to be more controlled in his aggression and not so brawl-happy.

Some fighters don't adapt well when they get older and slower but Holyfield adapted well to the age by getting bigger, stronger, and fighting more controlled.

 

Very short prime & not great opposition, but he did look incredible for that period. Even his less than totally brilliant performances were due to spoiling tactics from opposition for whom a win, was simply being on their feet at the final bell, & he was never in danger of losing.

Best cocktail of speed & power of any HWY in history.

 

I'd say that he had the best combo of speed and power in BOXING history period.

 

His talent was truly phenomenal --- which makes his career all the more disappointing.

One of the biggest wastes of talent ever to actually rise to the top, in any division.

 

No argument here.

 

I agree

 

He didn't waste his talent though...the JAIL stint is what compromised his career.

Consider:

He won a Title at age 20. Unified the division by the end of the following year (first unified champ since SPinks in 1978). Linear champ the following year. First man to beat Tucker, Biggs and Spinks, first to stop Holmes, Tubbs. He had a four year title reign (far more title fights than Marciano, for example). After losing to douglas..came back and beat Tillman, the dangerous and undefeated Alex stewart and then the ultra dangerous Ruddock twice.

Tyson proved his point..before jail messed up his career. One of teh ATG without question. Talent not wasted.

 

Tyson was lucky in that he didn't have to fight at the same era with Lewis or Klitshkos

 

You think he'd be too small?

Lewis struggled with Evander Holyfield twice. Struggled with Mercer. No guarantee Lewis would have beaten a PRIME Mike Tyson who was MUCH better and the same size as the two aforementioned fighters were at the time Lewis fought them.

As for teh Klits..I'm a big fan....but it could be argued that THEY are the ones who are lucky...that they don't have a Tyson to fight.

 

Mike's not THAT big of waste. He ruled the division for over 3 years, Unified the titles, was a two time champ, is universally regarded as a top 10 all time heavyweight, and will most likely be a first ballot HOFmer come next year. Plus, his record for being the youngest heavy champ in history will ALWAYS stand. I'd say that he got most outta his talent, he just burnt out quickly. But with his style he was destined to have a short prime.

I rather a fighter that has a short, yet brilliant prime as opposed to a fighter that has a long, yet unremarkable prime.

But if anything... BOWE was a much bigger waste of talent than Mike. At least Mike was awesome for 3 years. Bowe was only awesome for one night.

 

Prime Mike would have smoked those worthless, painfully overrated sisters. The Klit sisters would be nothing in the era of prime Lewis, Holy, Bowe, and Tyson. Hell.... Vitali couldnt even beat a SHOT Lewis.

 

Shot Lewis my ass. In his fight before that Lewis had hit pussy Mike so hard that he made Tyson come out of the closet after the fight. Tyson's era was full Tillises, Tuckers and Douglases, lesser guys who either whupped him or gave him great deal of trouble. Highlight reel is not reality

 

Anyone can say this type of thing about any fighter though..I could say that Lewis' era was full of Rahmans, McCalls, Brunos...lesser guys who either whupped him or gave him a great deal of trouble. Highlight reel is not reality.

However I would be being unfair to do so..and so are you in doing that.

 

This is correct. Just pointing out that Tyson is no exception. Some people are talking like he was entirely in different class than Lewis or Klitshkos while that obviously is not true

 

ok..fair enough.

I'd say that Tyson has the edge on both Klits...the only thing that makes it close is the massive size difference...but I think that Tyson and Lewis were matched fairly evenly.

 

agREED...

Tyson COULD have Done MORE w/his Talent, but he Accomplished MORE than Enough to where it's Hard for REED To Think of him as a "Waste" of Talent....



REED:Lok:

 

I'm not really sure that era ever existed.

I mean, there was never a time period where all four of those fighters were in their individual primes.

I agree with you that in their primes, I'd favor Tyson and Lewis to beat either Klitschko, at their peaks....but Bowe and Holyfield are other cases, and what those fights looked like would depend a great deal on when they occurred (or maybe if they occurred, in the case of Bowe ::).

 

Yes, but he made the choices which led him to jail. Jail isn't some wilful entity which conspired against his career. Then, he made more decisions once he got out of prison --- namely, challenging two great fighters (only one of them considered as much, at the time Tyson met them) between 1995-2005 --- a period of ten years! The remainder of this period, he chose style over substance, cash over respect.

He could have been so much more, truly. Some people will baulk at this, but I have said in the past, on pure ability, Tyson had a shot at ruling the Heavyweights from 1988, when he beat Spinks, to as far-reaching as the late-90's, potentially.

It isn't as if he redeemed himself with a stellar career post-prison, either.

 

How long he ruled the division depends on your viewpoint. I only consider him the champ from the point he defeated Spinks, myself --- that makes him champ for two years. It also moots his long-held claim to being the youngest HW champion ever --- that distinction still really belongs to 21-year-old Floyd Patterson. Tyson was twenty-two when he beat Spinks (correct to the year), so I don't respect that record as reality. However, he is certainly the youngest HW titleist ever, & that remains very, very impressive. Like you say, most consider him a top-10 all-timer for the division, & I agree with that, so no bones there. As for being a first-ballot HOFer, though, that doesn't hold much water with me, if I'm honest. It's not as if he deserves to be a first-ballot entrant, after all. If he's chosen immediately (good chance), it'll be because the Hall have more regard today for photo-ops & publicity than they do for honouring the worthy. That's been their trend for a while now.

It's true that fighters in Tyson's style --- especially at HW --- burn out quicker than others. It's not true, though, that they should be burned out (effectively) before their 25th birthday. His short, explosive prime is really just talent only partially-fulfilled. Between 1985-89, I'm not one to fault him as much as some of his critics like to. He put almost every foot right, IMO, during that period, & regarding the competition, you can only fight those in front of you. Tyson did a fine job of that.

However, as we all know, he danced on razor blades after firing Rooney & training only as he pleased, until such time it caught up with him. What happened next would tell us a lot --- & over the next fifteen years, he spent a few of those in prison, never re-gained the championship (he's a two-time titleist, not a two-time champion), never even fought for the title until twelve whopping years after losing it, & spent most of 1995-05 fighting sub-par opposition with a view to earning fortunes to squander, rather than furthering his career. Even when he finally did challenge again for the belt, we all knew why --- he had not one iota of respect for the mantle, as evidenced by his conditioning. It was all just a mercy payday for him. Afterward, it was back to scrapping with over-matched scrubs for the sake of a buck --- only this time, he couldn't even do that anymore, so over-the-hill was he.

Everyone loves to stick it to Bowe about being a waste (& not unfairly, mind), but I hold more against Tyson, because I expect more. Bowe was a formidable talent, & while Tyson unquestionably achieved more than he did, he was also, in my view, a much more promising fighter. He is at least as big a waste of talent as Bowe.

 

Do you really think Bowe was that good, Xplosive? I believe beating a much smaller man at 202lbs in Holyfield has caused Bowe to become overrated. Everyone always looks at that one fight and says "Bowe was so great that night, if he stayed in that shape and focused, he'd have had a better career!"
I don't agree necessarily with this notion. He had the size and style to give Holyfield trouble. If you look at Bowe's opposition, who did he really beat that was all that good other than the much smaller Holyfield? Who did he beat that hadn't already been demolished previously?

 

Tyson comes up to Vitali's chest. I don't consider Tyson having an easy night against Vitali. Vitali has an iron jaw and heavy hands and can fight tall and keep the fight on the outside against much smaller guys. I consider him a nightmare matchup for Tyson. Probably one of the most difficult styles Tyson would ever contend with. Not even Lewis' hardest shot could drop Vitali. Tyson would have to jump up off his feet to land on the dude's chin.:Giggle:

 

At the same time, Klitschko has not dreamed of being hit by someone with the type of speed & power-combination Tyson once had.

It's fine to say his jaw is iron --- he has a great beard --- but it has never come near being tested as Tyson would.

 

Come on Ramonza.:: Tyson landed a bunch on Tucker and couldn't get anything done. Vitali has twice the strength and power of Tucker. Not sure why you're overrating Tyson so much. Tyson would have tremendous trouble even touching Vitali's chin. It's one of the most awkward styles Tyson would ever come up against. Vitali's taken enough shots from guys bigger than Tyson. Ever heard of Lennox Lewis? Corrie Sanders? Or do you think 5'9, 217lb guys actually are capable of punching harder than guys 6'5, 250lbs? Tyson's speed would be nullified. He wouldn't able to get inside on Vitali. He'd get frustrated, clinched and pushed back or just pushed off. The size and strength difference is considerable.

 

Did you just imply a man at 217lbs cannot possibly hit harder than a man of 250lbs?

 

Yup that's what he did...:notallthere:

With that logic Louis could never have punched harder than Carnera...

 

:laugh11:You do realize I said Lennox Lewis right? Or do you think Tyson's power is a whole different level?

 

Do you think Tyson punches harder than Lewis?

 

There's only so much power a little man like Tyson can generate, much of it based off his speed and explosiveness. If we're talking natural power, he's not on the level of the likes of Foreman or Shavers. Even Tyson admitted this on the Arsenio Hall show. And I don't believe he can punch harder than Lewis or Wlad either. He's a much smaller man than those guys. Those guys are beasts, not fat-assed bumbling rolly polly heavyweights.:Giggle:

Forward to 4:28 of this clip where Tyson admits he can't hit anywhere near as hard as the killers Ali faced.

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