Are we the last generation of boxing fans?

We got womens boxing now too in the Olympics. More fans. A fan is a fan is a fan, even if it has a fanny, it can still be a fan.

 

If nothing else, I'd venture to say the number of women enrolling in boxing-related fitness classes may go up. ::

If you act fast, you can get out in front of that wave.

 

Boxerobics.

HIT THE FUCKING THING!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes it is dying for no other reason that the promoters are not doing a good job growing the stature of young fighters by putting them on free TV.

I've gone from being a HARD CORE fan to a casual fan for ONE reason...there are no fighters today that I want to watch. I watched 4 rounds of the Pacquiao and dont really remember the last couple of MW SSM. Cotto was interesting for awhile but has been destroyed twice already.

They want us to watch Dawson, Alexander, and Bradley? BOOOOORING

 

I don't know but it's the fights BEFORE the major ppv's that could be the most exciting and dramatic. It's the fights that mark their arrival into big paydays and assures them a big check in their next fight.

For some reason, these FIGHTERS are not fighting each other. Look at Maidana, Alexander, Bradley, Khan, Victor Ortiz. Look at klitschos, Hayes.
Juan Manuel Lopez and Gamboa. Darchinian and Donaire.

We have complained about HBO's pay structure before. There is talent out there but for some reason they are not fighting each other.

 

Yet what are they producing? Barrera, Morales & Marquez are all finished and there have been no notables on their tail. Central and South America generally is no longer producing Arguello's or Monzon's of Jofre's. The odd Mayorga, Guzman or Freitas is all we're getting. And for all the talk of the rise of Eastern Europe, what have they produced? The Klitschko brothers are the only fighters than will be remembered 10 minutes after they retire and it's really stretching the word to the breaking point of meaning to call either man 'great'. Meanwhile in the last 20 years Asia has produced 1 great fighter, which is par for course production wise over the time period while Britain, as it usually does in that kind of time period gave us two very good champions, again who would stretch the definition 'great'. Continental Europe has produced it's standard steady stream of respectable but hardly sport defining champions.

So the world outside the America's is simply playing to standard handicap - ie producing the slow steady stream which once about 10-15% of memorable top end boxing talent. The only real development has been the America's going as dry as Queen Elizabeth's fud & bumping what once represented 10-15% to 50% odd share.

The flourishing of boxing outside the US is a myth. It might be doing well commercially, but then so are X-Factor/American idol contestants.

 

Cannot anyone here stay on-topic?

The question pertained to FANS, not TALENT.

10,000 fans of an average fighter is still fans.

 

Im more interested in talent than sales, in boxing as with anything else, so I'll talk about what Im interested in.opcorn:

Europe & Asia have more world champs and the champs are more prominent/prestigious in the sport for the aforementioned reasons. So they can be sold in local markets as bigger attractions. It's misleading to conclude that really means boxing is bigger there, it just means guys have come along who are more marketable local draws.

I can say for certain that boxing is NOT bigger than it once was in the UK, although it's still big enough to market guys who are perceived as elite boxers into big ticket draws. I only know ONE person who likes boxing. And he's from Ireland anyway. That's why Im on here so much since I don't even know anyone who would know who Carl Froch is, even though he can sell out a stadium in Nottingham.

You might argue Germany has built the sport up to greater popularity (?), but unless they start producing some fighters worth a damn I really don't give a fuck. Maybe they also buy more CDs than anywhere else too but unless they produce some bands worth listening to they might as well not exist for all it contributes to the health of music.

 

Once again, the matter pertained to FANS.

Are we the last generation of fans.


Simple Answer is...NO.

The fans are out there. There are more of them than ever before. They are accessed easier than ever before. You don't need 100,000 people in Soldiers Field to make money anymore.

The simple fact that the American business model has upset some fans, or that the MMA or UFC is attracting fans, does not mean that we have a problem.

The attempt to dilute or obfuscate the matter by suggesting that popular fighters are lesser fighters is irrelevant. In fact, an argument can be made that average fighters attracting big crowds is a healthy sign, rather than a bad one. Who would have argued that 100,000 people going to see an old, tired slugger and a faggot bookworm fight 10 rounds in Soldiers Field was a sign of weakness in boxing.

If 100,000 watching Jack Dempsey try and fail to figure out Gene Tunney over 10 rounds {} is the good old days....then I fail to see how Wlad Klitschko vs Chagaev in Gelsenkirchen in front of 60,000 is really any indication of weakness.

 

Unless boxing increases it's visibility and over all popularity it's in trouble. The model now is to build up local celebrities and pockets of high interest in single fighters. It's like a dying oil field where you have to go deeper and work harder to extract the last deposits. You still get gluts and great days of drilling, but the overall trend remains what it is.

As I said, Carl Froch might sell 30k tickets in Nottingham, but the real measure of boxing's decline is that not 2 in 100 people in Glasgow would know who the fuck he is.

 

Jack Dempsey could have sold 100k tickets anywhere. Tribes people in the amazon probably knew who Jack Dempsey is. Wlad could only sell 60k tickets in Germany or Ukraine. In global terms he's a built up local celebrity.

 

Now you are being faecetious.

For openers, most American's really wouldn't know who the fuck Jack Dempsey is.

There are 300 million people in the USA.

There are 120million in the Ukraine and Germany. Most of them know who Klitschko is....and get this....because they know who he is there is a statistically greater chance that they know who Jack Dempsey is.

Boxing thrives off lineage. It always has done. Respect for the present, or at least some slight interest in the present, engenders an interest in the past.

 

Most american's in the 20s wouldn't know who Jack Dempsey is? We'll have to disagree on that.

As a % of the world's population I'd bet about 3x as many people knew who Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis was than know who Wlad is. Even allowing for mass media making global fame so much easier now.

You're in a state of absolute denial on this.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the World Series of Boxing doing anything long-term to help. It will get am boxing on tv, but I don't see how it will be all that successful since the americans won't do overly well. Plus, am boxing is not as exciting as pro boxing. Plus, promoters are still going to snag the really quality americans and sign them up for pro contracts.

Women's boxing in the olympics is bullshit. Not because I think it shouldn't be included, but because the fuckheads at the olympics have beaten the shit out of boxing making it harder to qualify (at least for the americans), taking away weight classes, not getting the world championships or the qualifying events televised (and when they do, they hide it very well), and hiding the olympic coverage on the off-channels of nbc. (I will concede that the coverage on the off-channels for the last couple of olympics has been superb, though, at least in volume.)

So now women's am boxing? The talent pool for the women is just so small that including it after beating up the men is bullshit. I'm glad it's being included, but it won't help the sport overall. How could I be wrong? I suppose if some super hot phenom shows up, that could help, but it will take that plus a lot of luck. How many of us can name any female world champs right now? I can name four or five, I suppose, and a couple of them are way above average looking, but no one (re americans) cares because they aren't americans. The women will get coverage on regular nbc, though. I'd bet on that.

 

Oh that's different. Unfortunately, that was nearly 100 years ago. We've moved on.

Doubt it. You seem to have not factored in the sheer pervasiveness of modern communications. For openers, he is known in the USA, which now has a higher population. That means more people. He may not be as popular as Dempsey, but they still know who he is. He is basically known all over Europe, which from Moscow to Madrid, is basically another 500 million people.

You may not remember what Kellerman said of Wlad Klitschko the night he fought Phil Jackson- he said that Wlad Klitschkos name would never be mentioned in the same sentence as Roy Jones. We saw how that panned out.

Hardly. I am the most rational poster around here. The American demographic might be stagnating slightly but boxing is still massive all around the world, and it is sucking in fans from areas that it never used to.

There is an element of the "SUV" about boxing, of course.......but boxing,, very simply, is more global than ever, just like everything else.

 

About as many people wanna watch women fight as men pole dance.

 

Hut, you are cherry picking some of the most famous people ever and using that to hold against Wlad and Vitali. It's not exactly fair.

Wlad and Vitali have been on HBO a LOT. Hell, probably more than Holyfield since he was always on ppv. Popularity-wise, they will always have a tough time against american champs when you are talking about popularity in america.

But, it's not like Lewis was that popular. And it's not like Holyfield was Mr. Popularity, either. Not until he fought Tyson, at least. Same with Lewis.

Imo, it's the f'ing negativity about the Klitschkos from Lampley, Merchant, and others that has caused the bulk of the problem. If these same people had acknowledged the tedium of such dominance at times, but celebrated the rareness of such dominance, they would be held in higher esteem, the sport would be better off, and people would be making a lot more money.

 

It's not even about Popularity, Mike.

Floyd Mayweather himself said it. Come to see me win, come to see me lose....come to see me.

Now, nobody every did go to see Old Floydy, and when they did, they left early, but the point is that fans tuning in to see Wlad being beaten, or hoping he is beaten, is still fans.

You are correct in that yankee bigotry is doing a lot of damage, though I don't think Lampley and Merchant are the sole, or even key, antagonists in that regard.

 

I haven't seen Russell Jr. as a pro but I've seen Andrade...don't hang your hat on that kid.

 

I was talking about the best-looking American amateurs from that team.

 

That's a rather Americentric view on the WSB, but if you just want to talk about it in that view, it should be pointed out that there are three US teams involved in it, giving it more than most other countries...and there's a number of American fighters on those teams (some of them are below).

The American fighters that are involved are going to be competing against (and training with) what should be quality amateur opponents on a regular basis (with financial incentives in those competitions), in a format (with no headgear and 10-point scoring, etc.) that much more closely resembles what they'd be seeing as professioals than the current Olympic system.

That should make the adjustment easier for amateur boxers going to the pro ranks, as well as giving the people involved in professional boxing (promoters, managers, even fans) a better estimate on who the best professional fighters coming out of the amateur ranks might be.

It's even conceivable that it could eliminate a signifcant part of the normal first 1-2 years a top amateur would have as a professional...the time period that usually begins with a number of 4-6 rounders against completely outmatched opponents.

Boston

Head Coach
Anthony Bradley

National Boxers

54kg
Ernesto Garza

61kg
Raynell Williams

73kg
Christopher Jones
Terrell Gausha
Charles Watson

85kg
Anthony Mack
Robert Brant

91kg
Javonta Charles
Angelo Buchanan

Los Angeles

Head Coach
Joe Zanders

Boxers
54kg

Rau'Shee Warren

61kg
Eric Fowler
Jose Saenz

73kg
Russell Lamour
Gary Allen Russell
Dorian Anthony

85kg
Lamar Fenner

91kg
Javier Torres

Miami

General Manager
Pat Burns

Boxers
54kg
Adan Ortiz

61kg
Adrian Martinez

73kg
Anthony Campbell
Darius Ervin

85kg
Sijuola Shabazz
Paul Koon

91+kg
Craig Lewis
Donovan Dennis

 

Boxing is one of the longest running events in the Olympics, it takes a long time to get to the medal rounds, but when they come, they do show some of it on regular NBC. They showed Andre Ward's win on there. Not all of the gold medal fights are shown on NBC, some of the ones that aren't are on the Spanish channel, but I believe some of the fights (like Vasyl Lomachenko's gold medal win) were on regular NBC.

I think it's a safe bet there will be some stories run during NBC's coverage about women's boxing, becuase it's noteworthy that it'll be included, because women watch NBC, and because there might be some medal opportunities there.

I believe there are only going to be three weight divisions for the women in 2012.

 

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Really not good for boxing. Damn heavyweights.

 

The boxing coverage on straight NBC is really horrible, though. "Coming up later..." and you have to sit through all kinds of bullshit sports because you don't know when "later" is and then the bastards only play a fight and save one for "coming up later the other American".

The overall coverage is superb, though, like I said above. My Tivo goes into overdrive because you have Telemundo and the MSNBC/CNBC combo showing most fights, and then TyC slipping some in. It's not perfect because I do think they skip some fights (and replay some fights on Telemundo), but it is a flood of fights. It's just that regular viewers won't see them; you really have to be looking for them.

 

this fight was great for boxing. a marvelous performance

 

I understsand the complaint about regular NBC, they don't usually show boxing except for a little bit on the last weekend, and it's squeezed in (I think they did run one of those human interest back-stories to set up the fight where Ward won his gold, but it is understandable that they're not going to go out of their way to show a bunch of bouts without a lot of Americans in the medal bouts, which was the problem in '08 and has been a problem the recent Olympics).

But like you said, if you're a boxing fan looking for boxing coverage throughout the Olympics, it's actually pretty damn good. I can't remember if it's CNBC or what (I think it was), but one channel was basically a dedicated boxing channel when it's on.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like to see that kind of thing too. If you know what I am saying.

 

Saul Alverez is only 19, sells out stadiums and draws 20 million viewers.

 

Slow as a glacier being pushed up a hill by a billy goat, mind.

 

Again....the question pertained to fans, not talent.